1 10 47 https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/7046bcce75e3f70a7a22623b881285e7.pdf 4dfa9f9d46f19c71e39c752a0ee4db3f PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book Description An account of the resource The Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book is a small collection consisting of one book that Dale used as a travel diary from 1932-1969. The book is a copy of Airman's World published by William Morrow in New York in 1933. Dale recorded all the flights she took throughout the pages of the book. She noted in the page margins the origins and destinations of her flights, occasionally recorded the date, and had the flight crews, including pilots and flight attendants (stewardesses), sign the pages. Because the earliest entries date to 1932 but the book was published in 1933, some of the entries may have been entered retroactively. Many of her flights originated in Seattle, Washington at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, but many other locations are also recorded, especially cities on the West coast of the United States but also a few international locations. Not every flight entry includes the name of the airline flown, but among those recorded are Northwest Airlines, Pan American World Airways, United Airlines, and Western Airlines, among others. A few pieces of printed ephemera from various airlines and some photographs and clippings are affixed to some of the pages as well. Dale also underlined and made notes on some of the passages of text in the book. Digital Materials: The collection has been digitized in its entirety. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1932-1969 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dale, Ethyl Y. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/683">Guide to the Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book</a> Language A language of the resource English Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1982-02-11-A Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Travel diary of Ethyl Y. Dale] Description An account of the resource Travel diary of Ethyl Y. Dale, circa 1932-1969. Originally a copy of "Airman's World," published by William Morrow, New York, 1933. Dale added personal notes, photographs, and other ephemera to the book documenting her flights. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1933-1969 Subject The topic of the resource Dale, Ethyl Y. Western Airlines; United Airlines Seattle-Tacoma International Airport Scandinavian Airlines System Pan American World Airways, Inc Northwest Airlines Corporation Flight attendants Flight crews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dale, Ethyl Y. Morrow, William Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 book (227 pages) : illustrations ; 8 x 9 in Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource scrapbooks books diaries Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book (1982-02-11-A) Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Ethyl Y. Dale Airman's World Annotated Book/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1982-02-11-A_text_001 https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/b233dfe01dd552aefedb775d5e0df94e.mp4 6e82fcd3feee470a3aa2a4b25d88a13b https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/9f2ec63d4add9b822b532fda77a6564b.pdf ce3a67a99b226f872eda4a8be8139264 PDF Text Text The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington Betty Riley Stockard Interviewed by: Dan Hagedorn Date: March 19, 2014 Location: Kirkland, Washington This interview was made possible with generous support from Mary Kay and Michael Hallman 2014 © The Museum of Flight �2 Abstract: Retired stewardess Betty R. Stockard is interviewed about her career with United Airlines. She discusses her experiences in the airline industry during the 1940s, such as the interview and training process, memorable encounters with passengers, and her flights along the West Coast and to Hawaii. She also recounts a story in which she served as a wartime courier for an important package. Other topics discussed include her childhood and college years in Montana; her thoughts on the Douglas DC-3, DC-4, and DC-6 aircraft; and her life after retiring from United Airlines. Biography: Betty Stockard was among the first specially trained flight attendants and attended a number of celebrities during her time as a flight attendant for United Airlines. She also worked for the Boeing Company. Elizabeth “Betty” Jean Riley Stockard was born on May 16, 1919, in Kalispell, Montana to Valjean Riley and Charlotte Dryer. She graduated high school from Flathead County High School, which is on an Indian Reservation. Her family made their living as farmers, selling dairy products such as butter and milk. Growing up on a dairy farm, Stockard says her favorite food was ice cream due to it being in abundance on the farm. After graduating from high school, Stockard knew she wanted to attend college, so she saved up money working at a women’s dress shop and stayed with a family friend while attending the University of Montana in Missoula. There were only two major options for women at that time at this university: home economics and business. Stockard decided on home economics but took a break before her senior year due to the United States’ involvement in World War II. In 1942 Stockard began working for the Boeing Company at Boeing Field in Washington before seeing a United Airlines job posting regarding “stewardess” (flight attendant) positions. Following this, Stockard began the lengthy interview and training process before becoming a flight attendant. She was among the first women to be specially trained to become flight attendants, as all previous flight attendants had been nurses. During this process, Stockard took her first airplane flight from Seattle, Washington to San Francisco, California. During her time as a flight attendant, Stockard had interactions with a number of celebrities and famous figures, including First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt. Stockard also met her husband, Wallace Raymond Stockard, on a flight she was attending. Stockard also had lengthy experience flying in the Douglas DC-4 airplane that came into use during World War II. After being a flight attendant, Stockard married Wallace Stockard and had four children, three boys and one girl. By 1950, their family was living in San Mateo, California but later returned to 2014 © The Museum of Flight �3 the Seattle area. Wallace died in 1990 in Seattle; Betty was still living in the area as of 2014. Biographical information derived from interview and additional information provided by interviewee. Interviewer: Dan Hagedorn served as Senior Curator and Director of Collections at The Museum of Flight from 2008 until his retirement in 2016. Prior to his tenure at TMOF, he was Adjunct Curator and Research Team Leader at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. Hagedorn is a graduate of Villa Maria College, the State University of New York, and the Command and General Staff College, and served in the U.S. Armed Forces for almost three decades. He has written numerous books and articles about aviation history in general and Latin American aviation in particular. For his work in documenting Latin American aviation history, he received the Orden Merito Santos-Dumont from the Brazilian Government in 2006. Since his retirement in 2016, Hagedorn has served as a Curator Emeritus at the Museum. Restrictions: Permission to publish material from The Museum of Flight Oral History Program must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Videography: Videography by TMOF volunteers and staff. Transcript: Transcribed by Pioneer Transcription Services. Reviewed by TMOF volunteers and staff. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �4 Index: Introduction and personal background............................................................................................ 5 College years ................................................................................................................................... 7 Move to Seattle and becoming a United Airlines stewardess ......................................................... 9 Stewardess career .......................................................................................................................... 15 Memorable passengers and flights ................................................................................................ 19 Courtship, marriage, and service to Hawaii .................................................................................. 24 Courier mission ............................................................................................................................. 26 Flight with former prisoners of war .............................................................................................. 27 In-flight emergency involving a Boeing B-17 aircraft ................................................................. 28 Flying a Douglas DC-3 aircraft..................................................................................................... 29 Retirement and family life ............................................................................................................ 31 Advice for future generations ....................................................................................................... 32 2014 © The Museum of Flight �5 Betty Riley Stockard [START OF INTERVIEW] 00:00:00 [Introduction and personal background] [production talk] DAN HAGEDORN: I’m Dan Hagedorn. I’m the curator at The Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle, Washington. It’s March the 19th, 2014. I am at the home of Betty Riley Stockard, [address in Kirkland, Washington]. Betty, I’d like you to tell me your full name and spell it for me, please. BETTY RILEY STOCKARD: Well, my full name is Elizabeth, and that’s E-L-I-Z-A-B-ET-H, Jean, middle name, Riley, R-I-L-E-Y, Stockard, S-T-O-C-K-A-R-D. DH: Very good. Thank you. And now I’m going to ask you a question a lady is not properly asked. I’d like to ask you when you were born and where you were born. BRS: Well, that’s one thing I know for sure. May 16th, that I was born, 1919 in Kalispell, Montana. And Kalispell is—it was a medium-sized town in the 1900s there in the northwest part of Montana, up near Glacier National Park. I always put in a plug for Glacier Park because it’s such a beautiful place. DH: And what were your mom and dad’s names? BRS: My father’s name was Valjean, V-A-L-J-E-A-N. And it’s rather an unusual name for now, but when he was born, oh, way back in about 1890, his mother apparently was reading the story about Valjean in—let’s see now. I’ve got to stop to think of the name of the book. But anyway, she was so impressed with the character that she named her baby who was to be born—was born at that time, Valjean. He had no middle name. Just Valjean Riley. And my mother’s name was Charlotte Dryer, D-R-Y-E-R. Charlotte Dryer. She was born in Tacoma. My father had been born back in Wisconsin. So they met midway in Montana. DH: Did you have brothers and sisters? BRS: I had two brothers and two sisters. One brother—a third brother had passed away. But two brothers and two sisters. I was number two in the lineup, so the three younger ones and myself. DH: Did you go through your primary schooling and high school there in Montana? 2014 © The Museum of Flight �6 BRS: Yes. Yes. DH: What was the name of the school you attended? BRS: Flathead County High School in Flat—that was Flathead County. It’s an Indian Reservation. I was actually born on an Indian Reservation, and my father—parents started a little town called Niarada. It’s on the map still, but there’s not any of Niarada left now. This was in 1915 that they met out there because land was given away. First it was—they’d give it to—they gave it to the Indians, the government. And the Indians weren’t farmers. They just couldn’t make a living. They needed something that had buffalo and wild game on it. And this was very rocky, barren land. No forest around it. It was just a ways—about 30 miles from Flathead Lake, a big lake there. And it was all declared Indian Territory. DH: So what did your father do? BRS: Well, first he farmed for the first—and built up this little community there, which was mainly Indians and early farmers because they had gotten land free, 160 acres apiece, just by applying for it. He was 20 years old, I think, when—just out of high school, and he had the—a longing to do things, of course. And he read about this back in Wisconsin. Came out, applied for the land, and it was given to him. DH: Very good. BRS: And my mother was—her mother was a widow and she had no income, and my mother was young and not through school hardly yet. So she applied for some land there. I think that was kind of farfetched on her side, but she thought maybe she could make a go of it. Well, so my mother and father met there, and they started this little community. And I lived there—I was born in Kalispell. Niarada was about 60 miles away, but just—I was born in Kalispell just because they took me there for the birth, you know. Then we moved there finally. My father went into business with two friends who opened a dairy, a commercial dairy. They did—pasteurized the milk, made cream, made cottage cheese and butter, and it was a—over the years, that’s where I lived until I— DH: So you grew up a farm girl? BRS: I was a farm girl. And if you ask me what my favorite ice—favorite food is, I’ll tell you. DH: I’d like to know that. BRS: [laughs] Ice cream. We always had ice cream. We could have all the ice cream just because they made it there in the dairy. And it was called the Glacier Dairy. DH: Very good. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �7 BRS: It was there until 1955, and it was then—the city grew up around it too much and— DH: So you must have graduated from high school around 1935, ’36? BRS: ‘37. DH: ’37. BRS: 1937, yeah. DH: Were you a good student? BRS: I was average. Maybe a little—maybe—fairly good, you know. DH: Any activities while you were in school? BRS: Well, I’ll tell you, we—I always had to work. I say, always had to work. People, the kids, in their teenage years, mostly all, worked just to supplement their own things. So I worked after school, and I worked in a ladies’ dress shop. And my brothers would—when they were 15 on would go to work in the dairy to begin with and then branched out into other things. But that was kind of the normal then. So outside activities, I belonged to the Rainbow Girls and things like that. But not nearly as much to pick from as there is. DH: So as a young teenager, maybe a little bit younger, when you were in elementary school, can you remember the first time you ever saw an airplane? BRS: We had airplanes that would fly over Kalispell in the summertime. Kalispell is very mountainous country and heavy winters, lots of snow. So I only remember very occasionally growing up, 10, 12, and so forth, when a small airplane would—and we would all run outside to see it. It would be too high for us to tell much about it. But that was just something out of this world, you know. It wasn’t anything that— DH: There was no airport there at your hometown? BRS: No, not at that time. There is now, of course. Not at that time. 00:07:56 [College years] DH: Yeah. So out of high school, what was next? BRS: I stayed out of school for a year—out of high school for a year and worked. I worked in a ladies’ dress shop and saved my money. Two of my best friends were able to go to college right away. Their families—it’s amazing but not very many girls went to college 2014 © The Museum of Flight �8 in those earlier days. And if your family could afford to send you, that was fine. I had a rather large family with several brothers and sisters. Well, I knew I wanted to go to college, so I worked and saved my money. And this is one thing I do like to tell sometimes to people these days. Well, my very first year, I went to the University of Montana in Missoula because a family who were friends of ours invited me to come and live with them, stay with them, and go to school. I went for—I lived at their home. So I had no room or board, but I could afford—we could afford our tuition. And tuition—I remember these figures very definitely just because we worked for them, you know, worked to save this. Tuition at the University of Montana was $35 a quarter in 19—I had stayed out a year, so this was ‘38 now. And room and board, I didn’t know about—have to pay for that. So I had a year there. And then the family who I had lived with, he was transferred, so— he had been with Shell Oil or something—so that meant that I didn’t have a place to stay. But one of my friends who had gone to college went to University—or went to Montana State College in Bozeman, and she just thought that I should go to school there. And, of course, I wanted to go on. And she had been there for a year or two and knew the ropes, and she told me how to apply. And I got a job with the National Youth Administration, NYA, at the college. And it paid $18 a month toward my tuition or whatever. I didn’t tell many people what my job was there. They knew I worked, and I’d just say “National Youth Administration.” Well, my job was to keep the bathrooms clean in the dormitory where I was to stay. The dormitory that I stayed in there was—it was new and a nice place. But, let’s see. It was $45 a month for room and board, which was—you know, that sounds pretty reasonable now, doesn’t it? DH: It does. BRS: Yeah. And they were on the semester basis there. So that part—I think the semesters were probably a little more than the quarterly pay. But I had that job, and I liked it there. It was a very good college, and there were more kids who were kind of—I say “kids”— kind of in the working class and all. And, well, I just really liked it anyway. So I went there the following two years, up to my—through my junior year and majored—we had two choices to be—college majors for women. One was home economics and that covered—that generally led to a teaching career, but it had other possibilities. I didn’t really want to be a teacher, I don’t think. I never had a great desire to be a teacher. But I had to pick a—had to make a choice of what to take. The other suggestion would have been kind of a business, and that would have been maybe—years later, I had thought about it, and maybe that would have been a good choice then. But anyway— 2014 © The Museum of Flight �9 DH: So what did you settle on? BRS: The home economics. DH: Home economics? I see. BRS: Yeah. And I had that. I was there two years. That was a good—real good college world. It was a small college. I think that the enrollment at Montana State in the late ‘30s was about—just under 2,000 students. And that made up the whole college. But I got a job beside the bathroom job. The next year, I got a better one, and that was working in a bookstore. A bookstore—was a brand-new bookstore, and it was—the college was building up all the time, a little bit. And I loved that job, bookstore. And that paid 25 cents an hour. And the other—so that—I worked quite a bit. I could work nights, too. I had to get special dispensation to be able to stay out—or to be home to the dormitory after 10:00, if I had to close down. DH: Well, that’s a change from the present experience, isn’t it? BRS: Yes. [laughter] BRS: So that was pretty much my college career. And I made lots of good friends in college that have lasted through my lifetime, until just more recently, there’s not many. 00:14:08 [Move to Seattle and becoming a United Airlines stewardess] DH: Where did life take you next after college? BRS: Well, let’s see. I was at Bozeman from ‘39, ‘40, ‘41. Those three years. Those two years. And the other two, I’ve told you about. So I had my senior year. And I was pretty much set in going on there, although I worked at home in the summertime in my father’s business in the office at the dairy—the Glacier Dairy office. Come the fall, and I wasn’t ready to go back to school yet. I can’t quite remember now why—I was going to take another year off and save some more money, I guess. But that was October. In 19—in December 7, 1941, this was, of course—you know what happened then. Well, maybe it was something that led up to that, but I had—the war started right away, and that involved everybody. And I just forgot about going back to school then. And I wanted a better job, so I thought, I had friends out here in Seattle. And my family, knowing I would be with good company—I mean, good place to live and everything, allowed me to leave home and come out to Seattle and work. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �10 Well, after the war started, there was just—that changed everybody’s lives. I mean, it didn’t matter—women had to go to work. They started the factories at Boeing and the ship-building factories. So I could almost—I applied for work at Boeing. And I almost could have just done it over the telephone and gotten a job because they needed so—and my only expertise, so to speak, then was just ordinary typing and filing and bookwork. So I accepted that job out there, and I had a place to live. And I always think, looking back on it, that was—I was just in the right place at the right time. DH: And this was with Boeing? BRS: This was with Boeing. DH: Whereabouts in Boeing? Was it Boeing Field? BRS: It was at Boeing Field. DH: Was it Boeing Field? Okay. BRS: Uh-huh [affirmative]. And I was living in the University District with my friends. So it was a rather long bus ride every day out there to Boeing, but that, you know—you don’t let a little thing like that stop you. If you have to do it, you have to do it. So anyway, I was—I liked the job there at Boeing, and I was there—had been there about two months. And I read in the papers, Seattle Times, that United Airlines was going to start hiring stewardesses. They had stewardesses at this time, but they were nurses. That was the whole requirement to be a stewardess then, was a nurse. It wasn’t very well known. I mean, I didn’t have any friends that were in the airline business or anything. But I read about that, and it explained how some stewardesses in San Francisco had—how they lived together and how their flights ran. I thought, oh boy, that sounds like fun. DH: Had you ever flown up to this point on an airplane? BRS: No. No. I’d never even been close to an airplane. I hadn’t even seen the—except in the sky, and they weren’t exactly very big. DH: That’s a pretty intrepid thing for a young woman to do. BRS: Well, you know, I look back at that and go, “Now how did I have the gumption to make this decision?” And I went to the interview. Gave a date for an interview, a Saturday morning. And I went to that, and there’s an article and a picture of that very first interview. And Seattle being a coastal town, United, of course, went up and down there, interviewed wherever they had stations. So I went to that, and it sounded—they took everybody’s name and address, and I had a small interview at that meeting. And there were maybe 40 girls there. Most of them were from the University, but there were some 2014 © The Museum of Flight �11 others. I remember talking to a girl who stood beside me when they took a picture, and she was a waitress. And so there were all kinds. We didn’t know the specifications of being a stewardess, but they—I don’t remember whether they took our—they must have asked us our weight and height. And those were quite specific because you could—were to be 5’2” to 5’7”, weigh less than 125 pounds. And I thought, boy, I’m going to have to gain some weight. I don’t weigh enough. I only weighed 99 pounds or 100. I was real skinny. Anyway, and you had to have had two years of college. This girl that I mentioned, the waitress next to me, she said, “Oh gosh, I haven’t been to college.” She was really disappointed. And so that was the end of it. There was really some nice-looking girls, cute girls from the University there, and some others. It never occurred to me in the slightest, I just didn’t think, well, I don’t have a chance for anything like that. But two weeks later, I got a telegram in—at my apartment, where I was with the friends, asking me to appear—to come down to San Francisco for a further interview. And they told me how to go to the United office here in Seattle, get a ticket, pick up my ticket, and gave me a little more details about it and make a reservation for a flight. Well, I’d never—I hadn’t even—didn’t even know you had reservations for flights or anything then. But I somehow got that done, and now I got to San Francisco, and I was told where to go for the interview. They told me everything about—except that, well, where are you going to stay? You’ve got to stay overnight down there. They didn’t mention anything about where I’d stay or what—how you did that. And I’d never been to a hotel on my own. I’d never made a reservation. So I inquired around a little bit, and people said, “Well, go to the YWCA.” And I did. Had to find out what that was all was and where—I didn’t even know what it was. But I went to the YWCA. DH: Let’s back up just a minute now. BRS: All right. DH: I want to hear about what—did you tell your family about all this? BRS: Not till afterwards. DH: Okay. BRS: Not till after I’d been down there, no. DH: And I want to know about your impressions about your first airplane flight from Seattle to San Francisco. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �12 BRS: Well, that was my very first—and we went up these stairs, and then we—the first thing I noticed were the uniforms, and they wore these little hats. I had a hat like that on at the time, a little kind of pointed hat, just about like this. Because you always wore hats, and you took—you had gloves, you know. And I thought, oh my goodness, they’re thinking I’m trying to copy them, I’ll bet, with my hat. Because here their hat was the same as the one I was wearing. That was my thought. DH: So they waited on you? You were actually waited on—as a candidate to become a stewardess, you were waited on by a stewardess? BRS: That’s right. And I made—noticed everything she did, too. She smiled a lot. And— DH: Did you let her know that you were flying to San Francisco for that reason? BRS: No. Oh my, no. This was just all beyond me, you know. Born on an Indian Reservation, and now I’m trying to fly in the sky. Well, anyway— DH: So you were at the YWCA? BRS: And so I had to find direction from there to where I was—the meeting was. And I went to that. It was—and I remember there were about two people who interviewed you. One was—gave the more informal questions. Well, I was most impressed by it, of course. I thought, oh, how great, I think. But I still—it never—I just didn’t ever count on it. I didn’t think, oh boy, maybe I can do this. But I gave all the information they needed, and they took your weight and your height and this sort of thing and asked you questions. Well, when I—then I had a flight home. Well, I still was pretty—I mean, I wasn’t counting on this at all. I was still amazed by what had happened. Two weeks after I’d been in San Francisco—and I wasn’t there long enough to see the city or I—you know, when you’re from a small city, small town, why, how you go about looking around at the bigger towns and so forth. I didn’t try to take any of that in at the time. But I had my flight back, went back to work at Boeing. DH: So then you told your family what you’d done? BRS: Well, yes, I told them that I’d done this. And I think they didn’t—well, I’ll tell you one thing I have forgotten to tell you. I’d never been in an airplane. I’d never been close to one. But my father, through his dairy business, sent produce and products—butter, particularly, out to Seattle to the big creameries or dairies out here. And he would have made orders for several hundred pounds at a time. He would drive trucks out here. And, of course, that was for overseas ships and our soldiers now. You see, we’re at war. DH: Sure. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �13 BRS: So he, being in Seattle—he had a sister living in Portland. Well, he would feel that—he’d always—so close to Portland, but he found out that if he flew to Portland, he could get down to Portland in an hour and not have to do all, you know, driving of several hours. So he flew two or three times. He got on the airplane. He must have been quite a bit more knowledgeable than I was, I guess. But he flew down, and he would come home and talk about the airplane. This was earlier, before I’d even come. So that was my introduction, I should say, to flying, probably. DH: Was he enthusiastic about it? BRS: Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah, he was. But that was my—really the basis—only basis I had for flying. Well, then when I got this second telegram saying, “We would like—you have been selected,” I think, or—trying to think how it might have been worded—“…to become a stewardess, or to attend our first stewardess class.” The first one they were to have. And it would be in Chicago. Well, I didn’t—my gosh, Chicago’s so far away, you know. Anyway, I met—or talked on the phone first and met with them, who gave me more details about going. So that’s when I really told my folks that I was going to go. And I think they were really aghast and wanted to say, “Oh, no, we don’t want you flying all the time,” or something. But they didn’t ever say, “No, you shouldn’t.” They let me make the decisions and go ahead with my life with—and this is—you know, when you have children, why, you—it’s pretty hard to let go. DH: Oh, yes. BRS: Pretty hard. Well, the next thing I knew, I was on an airplane for Chicago. The interview would have been in February, and my date to Chicago was starting April 14th or something. So it was April that I went back there. And that was just—that was a long flight back, and I just—I didn’t even tell the stewardess on the airplane what I was—you know, this is so new to me. So I was met in Chicago, and the stewardess class was held at the Del Prada Hotel, which doesn’t mean anything now, but it was South Chicago. And, of course, I’m so wide-eyed about all this. But there, once I went to the hotel and told them who I was or what I was there for, why, I was assigned a room, and I met other girls and so forth. So that was— and that— DH: How many other girls were in your class? BRS: There were 25 in our class from all over the United States. DH: And they stayed at the same hotel? 2014 © The Museum of Flight �14 BRS: All stayed together. And we had a car that picked us up in the morning, took us out to the airport, to the classrooms. And this was their very first class, and so we were experimental. I mean, they told us things, and we—or changed their minds along the way and so forth. Basically, the studies at the school, the classes—the school was to last six weeks. And so, of course, we learned a lot of United history, their routes and the history. And I—since I’ve been making a few talks, I’ve remembered things that I didn’t even think—but they told us in school, one of the things they wanted—or said, “Now, don’t ever show fright when you’re flying. This is to be—don’t ever show fright.” And, of course, that just kind of rolls by you. You don’t know what fright on an airplane is yet. Yet. [laughs] And let’s see, there was one other thing that was surprising that they told us. Oh, maybe I’ll think of it. But— DH: So how long was the curriculum? How long was the course? BRS: Six weeks. DH: Six weeks. BRS: Six weeks. And, oh, they gave us a good first aid course. Complete first aid, and we got our first aid—or our Red Cross ticket for that. DH: So what was the curriculum like? Now, you had mostly classroom—a good bit in the classroom? BRS: Yes. DH: Or did you actually practice on an aircraft? BRS: Uh-huh [affirmative]. Now, while we were in school—and I said there were 25 of us— and there was a United crash in Denver over the Rocky Mountains. This was 1942 now. And it really wasn’t too uncommon, those early crashes. I mean, three or four a year, of a commercial plane. Not just United, of course. But there was Eastern, there was American, there was Delta, I think, a smaller one. And, of course, United. But the day after this crash, why, four of the girls didn’t show up for class. DH: Oh, dear. BRS: So I think they’d had calls from their parents that night. “We don’t want you doing this.” So it came down to 21 in the—and they—of course, we had to learn a good deal of American history, too. I say “American history.” I mean, wherever United had a station, why, we had to kind of learn that. We had to—we learned exactly what we were to do on the airplane, of course. And we had—after the passengers were all boarded and we had taken off, then we took our manifest and—that they had given us and had to contact each passenger, get their name, 2014 © The Museum of Flight �15 get her—make sure that they were who—they knew where we were going, and we would write down the seat number that they were sitting in. And we were responsible for getting each passenger at a stop off of the airplane. Some of them, you know, didn’t know you made only one stop, and so between here and, say, Denver, we’d stop in Boise. Well, we had to make sure that they got off in Boise, and the others got off in Denver in the same way. And that was—but contacting the passengers was interesting. Most of our personnel were military because they would be on their way back to Washington, D.C., some of them. Well, I’ve kind of forgotten—skipped a little bit here. When our six weeks was up, why, we got a nice big certificate, and we were— DH: Did they pin wings on you? Was there a pinning ceremony? BRS: We didn’t have our uniforms yet. DH: Oh, you didn’t get your uniforms yet? BRS: No, we hadn’t had those—but they assigned us—told us where we would be stationed. And I think with most of them, they gave—if you had a preference, why, then I think they probably took that into consideration. DH: Did you state a preference? BRS: I don’t think I did. There was no station in Seattle—there was a station here, but they didn’t have any crews based here. They didn’t base any stewardesses. There was one other girl from Seattle, besides myself, in this. But she—her family lived here. So I didn’t—we didn’t plan on living together or anything then. I was assigned Portland. Well, in so doing, I had relatives there in Portland anyway. So I was—it was just taken for granted. And I did. I went and lived with my aunt and uncle there—here in Portland. 00:34:00 [Stewardess career] DH: So United was flying DC-3s at the time? BRS: Yes. DH: Okay. And do you remember your first flight? The very first flight that you served as a stewardess and— BRS: Well, we—the first two or three flights, we went as observers. DH: I see. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �16 BRS: And so observers—yes, I could—I think my first flight all by myself was just Portland to Seattle. DH: But while you were an observer, were you in uniform? BRS: Oh, yes. Well, yes, we couldn’t fly until we got our uniforms. DH: I see. BRS: And when we got on—the flights were usually full just because it was—but I think they saved out a seat for when there was an observer. They called us then. And we did that for— DH: So you were flying out of Portland. What were your usual destinations at that time? BRS: Well, Seattle was an hour’s flight away, and when you went to Seattle, you usually made two round trips a day on what they called a shuttle flight. There were probably four flights a day out of Portland, and the other flights would be—one would be going south to San Francisco, and then there would be girls based in San Francisco. And we’d fly that far and then layover for a night, and the girls would take it on to Los Angeles, another crew. DH: Now, you were telling me and showing me a picture of Boeing Plant 2 when they covered it with what appeared to be a village from the air. BRS: A whole city. DH: And you said that one of the first things you had to do was—when you got ready to take off at Boeing Field, was to make sure that all the window shades were pulled down. BRS: We had—yes. The shades were pulled down when they boarded the plane, even. DH: I see. BRS: In Seattle. And then after we were, oh, maybe 15 minutes, 20 minutes or—15, maybe— why, then we could raise the shades. But coming in was the same thing. Any flights in, you pull the shades. And people— DH: Was that your responsibility to make sure that was done as the— BRS: What? DH: Was that your responsibility? BRS: Oh, we went up through the cabin and pulled them all at a certain—all at the same time. Then we were given instruction if—nobody was to take pictures at all on the airport 2014 © The Museum of Flight �17 oryou know, you couldn’t pull the curtain a little aside and have your camera up there and take—if we found anybody doing that, we were to take their camera, keep it, and turn it into the station. This was a—now, we didn’t have—that wasn’t very often. I’d see people peeking once in a while, and then if they continued to do it, why, then— DH: Did you get cross with them when they did that? [laughs] BRS: Oh, not cross. But you’d say, “I’m sorry, that’s not allowed,” or something. And there was a snap at the—the curtain could—you pulled it back and snapped it at the bottom. And I think the other one pulled, so they pulled together in the middle. They overlapped in the middle. So it wasn’t too easy, and most people didn’t do it. But there would always be one or two. And so you just made a trip up the aisle and— DH: So it sounds to me like you settled into this routine pretty quickly after you finished school? BRS: Well, oh, yes. Like I say, I was in the right place at the right time. I really thought this was the—well, for five years, I thought this was the best job I could have ever had. Because of the timing. This was wartime. And I stayed in Portland for about six or eight months, and then I transferred to San Francisco. Out of Portland, we also flew east as far as Salt Lake or Denver, as well as up and down the coast. And then about that time, they opened a base—started basing—oh, maybe a year or two, after a year, basing stewardesses here in Seattle. DH: Did you fly frequently with the same crew, the same pilot and copilot? BRS: No. It was always different. DH: Always different. BRS: And you repeated, of course. But even the captains and the copilots didn’t fly as a couple. Every captain and copilot was a different combination. DH: Did you feel—was there any sort of camaraderie between yourself and the pilot and the copilot, in terms of crew briefings or anything like that? BRS: Oh, yes. We were always very pleasant. We always walked off the airplane all together and in uniform, you know. And the pilots were based in different cities than the stewardesses. At first, anyway. Seattle had pilots based there, but no stewardesses based there. Not for any particular reason, I don’t think, because in time, why, that probably changed. And the stewardesses are based in Portland, but no pilots there—based there. So it was—you got a mix of crews all the time. DH: So on the short flight from—for instance, from Portland to Seattle, what type of onboard amenities do you make available to the passengers? Did you serve coffee? 2014 © The Museum of Flight �18 BRS: Oh, yes. Now, we had one flight—oh, you’re saying just on this shuttle trip? Yes, we would always offer coffee. We didn’t serve lunch—or a meal on that because it was only a little over an hour. And— DH: Did your uniform include gloves at that time? BRS: No. DH: It did not. BRS: No. DH: Okay. BRS: It did with Pan American, but, of course, we weren’t associated with Pan American until I— DH: How did the passengers view the stewardess at that time? Did they—were they respectful? Did they— BRS: Oh my, yes. I’ll tell you, it was new to the public to have a stewardess—well, they had nurses before, and I’m sure they had upmost respect. And when—back in Chicago—this was the other thing I was going to tell you. They had nurses who were first because they—oh, and they thought that that would—the public would be more acceptable in knowing there was help aboard of some kind, you know. When we had our pictures taken at stewardess school, one of the things was we don’t want smiling pictures. We wanted a serious picture. And you’ve seen this one picture that was taken at school. It was the official one. We weren’t smiling. We looked efficient. But they wanted us to pass on the aspect of being capable and not just too friendly or anything. DH: I think that’s the one thing that has persisted throughout the course of the evolution of the entire profession. BRS: Yes, maybe so. Uh-huh [affirmative]. DH: Maybe so. Yeah. BRS: So now they can have—they have lots of smiling pictures, even back in school, because people know of the— DH: Well, now, I’ve seen pictures of you back in those days when you were in uniform, and you were pretty easy to look at back then. How often did you get gentlemen asking you for a little bit of your time? BRS: Well, I’ll tell you. There was one category above of dating a stewardess, one category above it, and that would be a movie star. They were, I’m sure, much more in demand. We 2014 © The Museum of Flight �19 used to have a lot of movie stars on our planes. But I’m saying, in the general public. But we had a great social life, as much as we wanted. We picked and choose. But how do you put these things? [laughter] DH: Well, that’s pretty much the way it’s always worked, though, Betty, isn’t it? BRS: Well, I haven’t flown—I haven’t been a stewardess for 70 years now or something. [laughs] But yes, I think— 00:42:43 [Memorable passengers and flights] DH: At some point, I think a young man entered your life, and he must have caught your fancy, as I understand it. BRS: Oh my, yes. DH: Tell us a little bit about that— BRS: Well, I’ll tell you, I liked this flying. And I mean, I liked meeting the people. And I had Eleanor Roosevelt, for instance, used to fly with us fairly often because there was no Air Force One for those— DH: Was she on any of your flights? BRS: Oh, yes. There was no Air Force One for the First Family—for the President and his family like there is now. And, of course, President Roosevelt didn’t ever fly with us. But she did. DH: Was there any special instructions when she was on board? BRS: Yes. She would go to the war bond drives. And you must know what those were. DH: Oh, sure. BRS: Very popular and very important because we financed our wars—we were in two wars at the same time, and a good deal of that was financed by the war bond drives. And the war bond drives had important people talking and had lots of movie stars. They liked to get exposure. And— DH: Well, that was certainly a memorable passenger. BRS: She— DH: Are there any others that stand out in your memory as really memorable passengers? Good or bad? 2014 © The Museum of Flight �20 BRS: Mostly good. Mostly good. Once in a while—I remember one time here in Seattle when people were boarding the airplane and I happened to be up front, just coming out of the cockpit to go back. And all of the sudden, the door went black—I mean, went dark, where they come in. Like, they shut the door, but shut out the light. It wasn’t that bad, but it just made a difference. Somebody was blocking the light. And I looked—got back a little more and [changed?]. It was Joe Louis. And he was so big, he just got—when he got on the airplane, he just filled up the doorway. [laughter] DH: You recognized him instantly then? BRS: Oh my, yes. And my story about Clark Gable is, of course, one of my favorites. Clark Gable, who was flying from Seattle to San Francisco one day, and we had left Seattle about, oh, 11:00, I guess. 10:30, 11:00 in the morning. And we had a full load. We stopped in Portland briefly. Nobody would get off unless they were assigned to get off. They didn’t get off just for—and then our next stop was Medford. And, of course, the DC-3s always made a stop to refuel and so forth. We stopped in Medford and had two passengers who were getting off there. And I, of course, always checked ahead of time, and said, “We’ll be in Medford in about 10 minutes,” or something like that. So this couple was sitting right in the very back seat, and the two of them got off, and we’d go right on. We didn’t even have to refuel there. So one person got on, and I saw him walking toward the airplane as he was coming from the terminal. He’d walk out, and it was just the one. And he looked kind of familiar, and I thought, oh, that’s somebody I’ve had on the plane before. But I couldn’t tell who he was yet. It was Clark Gable when he got on. Well, I was surprised, of course. Here’s Clark Gable, number one box office attraction of any kind, every kind, for the movies. And so he took the one vacant seat— one of the two vacant ones in the back, next to the window. Well, that left the seat next to him vacant. Nobody else got on. So I had just had my little jump seat right behind him. When there’s a vacant seat in the back, we’re supposed to sit in them, strap on just the same. So I sat next to Clark now. Clark, you know. DH: Did he ask you your name? BRS: [laughs] I don’t think so. My name is posted up at the front. He didn’t care about that. He didn’t care. No. But we just chatted away as two people, like you and I. We just talked and had the best time. I mean, had a very friendly—and so I said, “I’ll bet you’ve been up here fishing.” Because I knew he—you know, he was in the public all the time. And he said, “Oh, yes, I was.” He was all alone. And every time he had a chance to get away from Hollywood, why, he loved to go fishing. And Medford was—so that’s why I—and so he told me a bit about that. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �21 But on the same flight, there were two colored people sitting about midway in the airplane. They were military, I think, as I recall. Yes. But they were—out of Medford was one of the places that it could get rough, and you could get airsick. Well, and I used to keep—you could kind of spot people ahead when they were a little bit nervous or needed—and, of course, we had the burp cups there. And those were the most, I’d say, friendly thing a stewardess ever had. It was a helpful thing. I didn’t always go along, and say, “There’s a burp cup down there if you feel sick.” You didn’t say that because then they’d get the idea that they were supposed to. But you kept an eye out, and most people who had flew a little bit knew about them. Or, in some cases, I did get them—show them. Well, these two men used their burp cups. And so I, of course, took care of what was necessary there and came back and sat down. And Clark Gable was kind of laughing and smiling. He said, “Good thing you’re not from the south.” I don’t—and I knew exactly what he meant. And so, I mean, it was just a—oh, I’ll tell you. This was a whole new world for me of being in a public and realizing that colored people are treated differently. They had—because as far as I was concerned—we didn’t have any colored people—I had one in our high school. But as far as I was concerned, I treated them exactly the same. I gave him the same service and was just as pleasant to them as anybody else because that’s my nature. I wasn’t—but I had a roommate over the years at one point who was from Memphis. And, man, she used to tell the dispatchers—didn’t help her, to tell the dispatchers any—but she’d say, “Don’t put any colored people on my airplane, because if you do, I’m not going to serve them. I’m not going to—” And she wouldn’t. She had colored people in her home. We heard great stories about her colored maids and gardeners and everything. And she was a very pretty girl and—but, boy, she was serious about this. She flew for a few months, and I guess maybe had some complaints about how she would—I don’t know what the situation was. But she wouldn’t—yeah. DH: Well, I want to talk to you a little bit about how you met your husband. BRS: Oh, well, that will come. That will take a long time. [laughs] No, it won’t. I’m teasing you. I will. That will come. But I wanted to finish off something here. DH: Go ahead. BRS: Well, I guess I was talking about the gal from Memphis. And she wouldn’t deviate a speck on that and serve them. She’d ignore them. And, of course, she didn’t last very long on the airline. But this whole concept of how colored people were treated. When I first moved to Seattle, they still had separate bathrooms, and they had—well, there were other things, too. I’ve kind of forgotten what some of them were now. But that was a different world. DH: Yes. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �22 BRS: Yeah. And now, of course, we— DH: I grew up in much the same environment as you. I had no experience when I grew up in rural Ohio. BRS: Yeah. DH: And so I really think, in many ways, that led to me being much more broad-minded in terms of accepting people. BRS: Well, I think I was going to say that after I had been flying five years, I thought—and I liked it. But when you get married, you had to quit. I mean, there was no—they didn’t deviate on that at all. DH: Did you keep any kind of a logbook of your flying hours? BRS: Oh, yes. We had—we kept a logbook of our flight hours. DH: Was there a limit to how many hours you could do in a week or a month? BRS: At first, for stewardesses, they didn’t limit them. Because I know in mine—I have a few logbooks left—I mean, here—and I’d seen one that said 93 hours for a month. And maybe—we flew, I’d say, between 80 and 90 hours a month. We flew a lot. But then, finally, they put through about the time they said you can—in the ‘60s, I think, they might have changed it, ‘60s or ‘70s, where if you got married, you could fly, still fly. Well, I flew from ‘42 to ‘47, so none of that pertained to me. But— DH: So the husband didn’t come until later? BRS: He came later. DH: Okay, so—but somebody asked me to be sure and ask you about something about something being sewed inside your uniform? BRS: Yeah. Now, that’s just one of my stories that I tell sometimes. And like I say, San Francisco was a—a good place because it was so active, you know. Being on the West Coast and all the military coming and going. We had generals and admirals and so forth. You know, they were just the same as anybody else. I remember one trip that got pretty rough, and there was a Navy general sitting up in about 2C or something—or up toward the front. And we didn’t have any of the— overhead storage, where you put things, was open. It didn’t have shutters on it. So when you got in this rough weather, why, and everybody tried to stay in their seat and all. They didn’t want to get up and move around. We didn’t want them moving around. The captains didn’t. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �23 But things would fly out from overhead. And I remember this one general. It was lunchtime, and we had served some pea soup or something like that. It was hot. I mean, and it didn’t—when I had started serving, why, it hadn’t—wasn’t rough, and then when it did get pretty rough, I quit. But he’d had his service already, and comes an overcoat down from—flying down from above, right over him and over his tray and everything. And he’s in a uniform that he didn’t like to get spotted. Well, I spent quite a bit of time sponging him off afterward, this green pea soup. [laughter] And, of course, sometimes their hats would fly off. But somebody’s overcoat came and covered him up. There were just funny things like that all along. We didn’t laugh about that at all. But one thing I wanted to say is toward the—at the end of the—let’s see, the war was over in ‘45. In ‘46, the DC-4s came in. I made the proving—had the proving flight on a DC-4, meaning that’s when all the papers and the editors or the—anybody interested in a DC-4 would—went along. Engineers and so forth, just for the—to check the flight. I wasn’t so terribly impressed, although I remember saying—hearing somebody say, “My heavens, do you realize that we climbed to 10,000 feet in six minutes?” Or something, I can’t even remember the figures there. DH: How many flight attendants were on the DC-4? BRS: There were two, but I don’t—I guess there must have been somebody else. That day wasn’t a regular flight, and I think I was the only one on it. It was just to show the public—or show the commercial world what a DC-4 would do. DH: I see. BRS: It doesn’t—wasn’t so terribly popular, I don’t think. And I don’t recall that it made so much difference. But the DC-6 came in in 1947, and I had met my husband—he was just home from his military service. He was a fighter pilot off a carrier down in the South Pacific. And he— DH: Do you remember what unit he flew with, by any chance? BRS: What, what? DH: Do you remember what unit he flew with, by any chance? BRS: What year he flew? DH: What unit? What squadron? BRS: Oh, gosh, yes. I have all—should know all of that. Well, I’ll think—maybe it’ll come. DH: [unintelligible] Okay. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �24 BRS: He passed away 24 years ago, so I’ve been quite a bit of time since. But he did have two Medal of Honor commendations with this—first one with—and then the second one—for his shooting in Leyte Gulf and those battles. DH: I see. BRS: So— 00:57:49 [Courtship, marriage, and service to Hawaii] DH: So how did he meet you? BRS: He got on my airplane. DH: I see. Is he in uniform? BRS: Yes. No, no. This was ‘46, the end of—toward the end of or the middle of ‘46, I guess. But he had been home a few months. But he was out scouting airlines, I think, to—he wanted to keep on flying. And so he had been interviewed by TWA and, I don’t know, maybe one other. But he had been interviewed by Pan American, and he had decided on Pan American. DH: Hm-hmm [affirmative]. BRS: But he hadn’t gone to work for them yet. He was just—he lived here in Seattle. So he was on his way home and was then—would be going. DH: And his name was? BRS: Ray Stockard. Wallace Raymond Stockard. A very nice-looking man. And, you know, we used to have lots of—I say “lots.” How do we put this? We had—always had people asking us if we would go out on dates or have dinner or lunch or something. And sometimes I got a note later, “Would you meet me—tell me when your next flight to Seattle is, maybe?” Well, anyway, I remember thinking later, he inveigled my phone number from me by— I’m saying “inveigled” just to make it sound that way—because he had asked me if I knew of any places in San Francisco that might be—he knew—or I guess I’d probably realized—or talked with him enough to know whether—on this one flight. And I said, “Well, yes, I do know, because I know a group of stewardesses who have a home in—” Well, I was one of them, come to think of it. Had a home in—or lived in—near the field. [unintelligible] I want to say De Soto. It wasn’t that. It’s a small town, South San 2014 © The Museum of Flight �25 Francisco, right in there. And we were going to move into Burlingame to a nicer and better apartment. So I did know that that would be available. So I told him about it, and he said, “Well, could I come and see it sometime?” And I said, “Well, yes, you could come see it because we’re not the ones you’re going to rent it from. But you can certainly see it, you know.” And so he asked me for my phone number so he could call and see when would be acceptable and all this and that. That’s how it kind of developed. But I was going to say, after several months and we had been going together, why, I learned that—oh, well, it was probably about first of January or something, and we were talking about getting married maybe then. And I thought, well, I’ve been flying for five years. I better start thinking about giving this up. Because, you know, I could go on and never get any more interest than I have in him right now. [production and informal talk while waiting for loud vehicle to pass] BRS: I think about January, why, Ray and I started thinking about getting married. And he was working for Pan American now, and those were great flights. But— DH: Was he international or— BRS: Oh, all international. DH: All international, okay. BRS: Yes, he [unintelligible]. So about this same time, United—about January or February, United made the announcement—and it was news to all of us, the crews—that they were going to open flights from—start flights from San Francisco to Honolulu. Now, you know, always before, Matson Airlines—Matson Steamship was the only way people could get back and forth from—and so that was really big news in the airline industry. And United was the one who started the very first service. And of course, the people who flew with United from the East Coast wanted to go [unintelligible]. So that was big news, and I thought to myself, oh gosh, if I don’t see Hawaii now, I’ll never see Hawaii. You know, once you’re married, you’re grounded, you know. You don’t—[laughter]. So I kind of talked Ray into—instead of making a wedding date for maybe May, why, let’s make it a—so I could fly to Honolulu. I knew I had the seniority, and I would just love to do that. So he already was going back and forth to—his trips took him all over the Orient. We didn’t goo—they couldn’t go into China at all, but they went to Hong Kong. Well, so he was agreeable. And so, sure enough, we started the first of May, United did, to Hawaii in the DC-6s. It just came out. And now, those were far more impressive—to 2014 © The Museum of Flight �26 me, anyway—than the 4s. They were bigger. They were better. Everything. They had two stewardesses on those, and it carried 66 people. So now, I thought, well—and they wouldn’t—I had passed the training and all, but I knew that I—they wouldn’t—I couldn’t just fly—take the training and everything and then just fly for a month or so. So I had to stay three months at least, and I did. But those first flights to Honolulu were more exciting, I think, than the first ones on the DC-3. DH: Were there any special additional training that you had to take to prepare for long overwater flights? BRS: Yeah, there was—the same training they have to take right now for overwater. I mean, we had to be able to swim and do this and get somebody—supposedly, rescue them. Well, I wasn’t a strong swimmer. Montana waters don’t produce swimmers. [laughter] 01:08:24 [Courier mission] DH: So, now tell me about this sewing business in the uniform. I want to know about that. BRS: Oh, well, you know, we have a lot of military personnel that we knew were important and all, but we didn’t ever—you don’t usually know details too much. Sometimes we knew more than we should have, maybe. One night, I went in—or I checked in at dispatch in San Francisco for a flight to Seattle, and it left San Francisco at 11:00 at night. And so when I checked in, the dispatch said, “Betty, there’s a couple of gentlemen in the next room that would like to see you.” So I went into the next room, and here are two military men. And we had the usual greetings, and they said, “We’d like to ask a favor of you.” And I said, “Yeah, sure.” And they said—and then I kind of noticed they were holding a small package. And it was just ordinary brown-wrapped package, I think. Kind of flat, but nothing bunglesome. And they said, “We would like you to deliver this package for us in Seattle now.” So I started to open my purse to put it in, and they said, “Oh, no. It can’t go in your purse. This has got to go inside your jacket blouse. And we’re going to pin it there.” They didn’t sew it up, but they pinned it, I guess, [unintelligible]. And they said, “You’re not to—” No, and then I said, “Yes, that’s fine. I can do that, carry it there. Do you want me to give this to dispatch in Seattle?” And they said, “No, no. We’ve already talked to the pilots, and they’re going to—when you land there, they’re going to taxi to the far end of the runway.” I mean, from where we landed, turn around and taxi back to the far end someplace. And, of course, it’s dark. Nobody knew where we were anyway, but—nobody except me. And they said, “We’ll have a military jeep down there, and they will come up, and they will open the cockpit door.” The DC-3 2014 © The Museum of Flight �27 door could only be opened from the outside. So they said, “They will open the door. Then you can unfasten that and hand them the package.” And they said—made the statement, “You’re not to touch it or handle it or anything—or open it in any way at all or let anybody else know it’s there,” you know. So everything went per schedule. And they opened the door down there. We taxied back, and they opened the door. There was two military men there, jeep off in the dark, I guess. And so I got it loose, handed it to them. Everything went just as scheduled. I never knew what it was, who it was for, who it was from. About this same time, General Wainwright, who had been a prisoner of war in the Philippines—[unintelligible]. And I know that he and his men had been released. Now, I can’t just remember now what the time—what the frame of time was for his release or when this happened. DH: It would have been ‘45. BRS: Yeah, it was ‘40—it was—yeah. So I never knew anymore about it than that. DH: I think you contributed to the war effort. BRS: Well, I think I was a courier for something important, but I never did know. DH: That’s very interesting. BRS: Well, it was, and it’s the first time that anything was—I think they wanted to get it up here in a hurry. And they had their own couriers, military couriers, all the time, I know. But apparently, why, this was going to get here faster, right that same night, than anything else. 01:13:02 [Flight with former prisoners of war] DH: I’m going to challenge you a little bit. BRS: All right. DH: I’m going to ask you if you can tell me about your most memorable flight as a stewardess. BRS: Oh my. No, I’d have to give that a lot of thought, I think. I like—I mean, things like this and other people that we met, one flight—I mean, there’s nothing memorable about this particularly, except one flight—and this was about the same period, at the end of the war, when the prisoners—those who had been held prisoner—this could have even been General Wainwright’s same time. I don’t know. Don’t remember now. But they told me ahead of time that they were going to be all disabled, and people who had been prisoners 2014 © The Museum of Flight �28 of war were going to be on the flight. We were going to have a full load of that. So that was fine, you know. And they got on the airplane, and they were in sad shape. I mean, you—it just—they were still malnourished, and there were some without limbs. There was one man that had an old ax handle—it appeared to be an ax handle—attached to just below his knee that came hobbling on with that. And there was a couple that were blind. So that was—it was a different—gave you a different perspective and attitude, of course. They didn’t—I thought they would all be joyful. They were going home. They had been released, and once they were released from prison, they were sent to Tripler Hospital in Honolulu. And they had been there for a good two weeks, probably, so that they could fly again. They’d had nourishment and things so they’d be able to fly, I should say. And the government or whoever, the military, decided the very best thing that they could do would be to go home for a couple weeks. They’d had no contact. Go to their own homes. So these men were all from Oregon, Washington, Montana, and I remember there were two from British Columbia. Well, so I just tried to—I thought they would be just so happy, you know, to be on an airplane going home. And I’m sure they were within. But they’d been prisoners so long, they didn’t talk to each other. They didn’t converse. They were pleasant, of course, appreciative of when I served a meal or something. But it was just an attitude that, well, you never—you could see that they had been through very, very hard times. So that is one flight I’ve always kind of remembered. 01:16:10 [In-flight emergency involving a Boeing B-17 aircraft] DH: Did you ever have any in-flight emergencies or aircraft malfunctions that got you just a little bit excited? BRS: Yes. And that was a B-17 flying out of Salt Lake City at the military airport there. And we were just coming in to Salt Lake. And it’s a kind of a narrow passage, where we were. I can’t remember too much about it. But we started in, and all of the sudden, the captain just dove. I mean, the airplane just dove. We were still high enough that he could. I hit the ceiling. But I hit the ceiling two or three times, I mean. But this one, I hit—I probably came down straddle a seat or something. And it was just that this Boeing B-17 came out just—and we were just so—could have hit each other so well. And I remember that we stopped—as soon as we got to the airport, the captain opened the door, he came storming through the cabin, and I don’t know how he got out of the airplane, but he did. I mean, it only opened on the outside—that might have been a 6. But 2014 © The Museum of Flight �29 to get into them—nobody had notified him of this, the military hadn’t. He was trying to avert some other disaster because it was—he really saved the airplane that day. Well, you know, I don’t think—there’s sometimes—sometimes there were situations that I wondered about, but—I mean, that might have been close calls, too. But you didn’t— 01:18:05 [Flying a Douglas DC-3 aircraft] DH: So you crewed on DC-3s, DC-4s, and DC-6s. BRS: Yes. DH: Which was your favorite? BRS: Well, you know, I liked the DC-6 a lot, but I wasn’t there very long. And I just thought, you know, it’s time I quit—I’d better—I’d rather get married now and start a new career. So I didn’t—I liked that one. But then, of course, the DC-3 was just like my right hand, kind of. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Was that the one you flew? BRS: That’s—oh, the one I flew? Oh, yes. I flew the DC-3 once. DH: Oh, tell us about that. BRS: Well, this was a night flight again. Let me just reckon where we were flying. We were flying, I think, to—let’s see. Nighttime. Anyway, I think we were flying to Denver, maybe. Although most of our flights to Denver—the only flights at night usually were up and down the coast. Well, anyway, let me think now. Just a minute. Yeah, this was a flight from San Francisco, which we boarded at 11:00, and going—coming north. And— yeah, that was—that’s the one. Okay. We always, when they got on—people got on and we took off at 11:00, the first thing we did was serve them hot chocolate and cookies, usually. They liked that. And so that took a half an hour or so. And then by that time, why, they were ready to—I gave them all blankets and pillows and turned down the lights when it got late enough. So it was very quiet. And it was not completely dark in the cabin, but very little light. And most all of them were asleep. So I took the coffee—or the—yeah, coffee or hot chocolate or whatever they wanted and the cookies up to the crew. And the cockpit door—that was always locked. The stewardess had a key for that all the time. And so I got that door open. And the passageway in the DC-3 is short and narrow. The heating system is from right behind the captain’s seat to the back quite a bit. Anyway, why, I kind of squeezed by the copilot because he was working, doing something there in 2014 © The Museum of Flight �30 the passageway. And when I got up, the captain said, “We’re having a problem with our heating system.” And I said, “Well, yes, I know you are.” Because it was cool back in the cabin, you know, for the flight. So he had his coffee or whatever it was, and about this time, the copilot said, “Captain, you’re going to have to come back here and help me. One person can’t do this alone.” Well, the captain said, “Okay. Betty, sit down here in my seat.” [laughs] Betty, sit in my seat. And I did. He said, “Now, I’m going to tell you what to do, and you just do that and I’ll go back. I’ll step back there and help.” So he told me about—I held the wheel. He said, “Hold it very firmly, and don’t—” Because it’ll start rolling, you know, how it can dip. And that’s so easy for it to do. So he told me exactly what to do, and then he said, “Now, that’s Mount Shasta.” Well, I knew that was Mount Shasta ahead. I’d been by it a few times. [laughter] But this was a bright moonlight night, and it was snow-covered. And so that wasn’t hard. I kept the nose right on Mount Shasta. But it was a little—took a little more time. And so he went back and helped the copilot with the heating system. And I could hear them cussing, both of them, back there a little bit, every once in a while. But I was very intent. So I flew the airplane for about—and just once did he turn and have to come back a little bit. But he just—you know, he would feel any motion if I dip it, but I didn’t too much. And he said, “Oh, that’s fine.” I must have flown it for about 30 minutes, I think. Really. Really, 30 minutes. And they—like I say, they were fussing with that thing. And the light wasn’t very good and— DH: Did you put that in your logbook, young lady? BRS: Well, I’ll tell you. No, I was—I wouldn’t put that and let anybody know. You know, really and truly, I knew that if you tell somebody something and only they don’t—you don’t want them—or, I mean—they wanted a secret. Not a secret, but just don’t want them to know it. DH: Did the captain swear you to secrecy? BRS: No, no, he didn’t. I thought, boy, I want to keep my job, though. I’m not going to mention this to anybody. [laughter] I didn’t even tell my roommates about this incident because—for several months, maybe, because—well, I wouldn’t have wanted the captain to—the captain shouldn’t get fired. And they might have fired me, but I don’t know. DH: I think the statute of limitations has run out on that, so I think you’re okay. BRS: Well, that’s what I said in my last speech. I said, “Okay, now I’ve told you this story. And so you can tell somebody now if you want.” But then, I wouldn’t tell anybody about it. 01:24:32 2014 © The Museum of Flight �31 [Retirement and family life] DH: So you met Ray. BRS: Yeah. Oh, yeah. DH: And when you hung up your uniform for the last time, did you have any regrets? BRS: Oh my, it was hard. Yes. Yes. You see, but I thought—well, I had a whole new career ahead of me that I was looking forward to. And I had already asked him, you know, to delay the wedding for two or three months. And then, of course, after I’d been a Pan American wife for a while, I find out, my heavens, I can fly all over the world with Pan American now. And before, here I was thinking of just having a— DH: Were you pretty critical of the Pan Am stewardesses on their flights? Did you watch their performance? BRS: I usually didn’t ever mention—some of them knew it anyway. No, I never have. I’ve never even mentioned it—I mean, I don’t mention it now, if I were to fly off to someplace. I don’t say, “I used to do that.” No. I think that my time—I think I was at the right—in the right place at the right time. It was such an interesting—during the war, you know, all these things that went on. I was in San Francisco where it—so much happened and kept up with it all. DH: So you had a family. And what were your children’s names? BRS: Well, I had four children. And that’s why those things are kind of ragged. I think I must let them look at it sometimes. [referring to something off camera] Well, my children were all pretty close together. I mean, they were—the first two were 21 months apart, a boy and a girl. That’s fine. DH: And their names were…? BRS: Joe, named after my father. His father’s name had been Valjean, but he had been named—or was supposed to have been Joseph, like his father. So carrying it down through the family. So I had a Joseph William. And William was Ray’s best friend’s name. Then my second child was Denise, a girl. And Denise Elizabeth. Then came Edward. [addressing someone else] Whatever happened to Edward? Where is he? UP: They took off to do errands. BRS: Oh, they went off. Oh well. Okay. [unintelligible] UP: So you can say what you want. 2014 © The Museum of Flight �32 BRS: Edward. And then Richard. Dick. Dick. And the last two were 21 months apart, and then there was three years. And so they grew up pretty close together, you know, family. When I think—one advantage to my being a stewardess, I think, was that I let the kids at a fairly—after their teens—after they were out of high school, I let them—we let them take trips. They took trips with us, but by that time, they got to take them on their own, providing they met with our—my husband was very, very—what’s the word I want? He wanted them to be dressed neatly. No sandals. You wear socks if you’re going to wear sandals. He wasn’t going to have somebody point to him, and say, “That’s a Stockard kid. That’s one of his.” He wanted them to be presentable, always, and everything they did on the airplanes when they were by themselves. So they have—one boy went—spent three years in Borneo with the Peace Corps. He had a high military number, so he wasn’t—my daughter went to school in Germany and had some trips around it. Ed—what did Ed do? Ed did things. They all got to make trips. Ed went and saw a bicycle that he liked advertised—we lived in Miami. We got moved all over. DH: I’m sure. BRS: And Ed said, “I want to go to England and get that bicycle.” So we let him do these things, as they were adults, and consequent—and Dick—and they all graduated from college. DH: That’s wonderful. BRS: I’m proud of that for them. They’ve been good citizens. 01:29:20 [Advice for future generations] DH: Well, one last question. BRS: All right. DH: And you know that we’re—our mission statement at The Museum of Flight is to be the foremost educational air and space museum in the world. BRS: Good. DH: We hang a lot of credit on that. If you have a message that you would like to convey to young women who might be considering some career in aviation or aerospace, what would you tell them? 2014 © The Museum of Flight �33 BRS: If they’re already considering this, if they have an interest, if they’re—even though it takes ambition or delay a little bit, if they’ve got the interest, let them go—they should go ahead and do it. That’s all I can—that isn’t anything profound, you know. Most of them would do it nowadays. Nowadays, they have such a variety of opportunities. And I have looked back and thought, I wonder how I ever had the guts to even go to an interview in Seattle when I come from an Indian Reservation. I was very shy. DH: I think you did very well. BRS: Well, I’m—I don’t like to make it sound like I’ve done well. I don’t mean that. Because I’ve been very fortunate. Ray and I had a good marriage, and we were glad we got our kids educated. And he, of course, hasn’t even met [Tari?], Ed’s wife, or his grandchildren or great-grandchildren or anything, which is too bad. He died of cancer, of bone cancer. DH: I think that’s a wrap. Anything else you can think of? BRS: Boy, how have you stood up through all this? PEDER NELSON: Oh, that was great. BRS: Oh no. [laughs] PN: It was great. DH: Betty, thank you very much. This is wonderful. This is exactly what we hoped for. BRS: Well, all right. 01:31:26 [END OF INTERVIEW] 2014 © The Museum of Flight � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Museum of Flight Oral History Collection Description An account of the resource The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection chronicles the personal stories of individuals in the fields of aviation and aerospace, from pilots and engineers to executives. This collection, which dates from 2013 to present, consists of digital video recordings and transcripts, which illustrate these individuals’ experiences, relationship with aviation, and advice for those interested in the field. By the end of 2019, approximately 76 interviews will have had been conducted. The interviews range in length from approximately 20 minutes to 4 hours and 45 minutes. Most interviews are completed in one session, but some participants were interviewed over multiple occasions. The personal stories in this collection span much of the modern history of flight, from the Golden Age of Aviation in the 1930s, to the evolution of jet aircraft in the mid-twentieth century, to the ongoing developments of the Space Age. The selected interviewees represent a wide range of career paths and a diverse cross-section of professionals, each of whom made significant contributions to their field. Among the many interviewees are Calvin Kam, a United States Army veteran who served as a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War; Robert “Bob” Alexander, a mechanical engineer who helped design the Hubble Telescope; and Betty Riley Stockard, a flight attendant during the 1940s who once acted as a secret parcel carrier during World War II. The production of the videos was funded by Mary Kay and Michael Hallman. Processing and cataloging of the videos was made possible by a 4Culture "Heritage Projects" grant. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-current Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Museum of Flight (Seattle, Wash.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource oral histories (literary works) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/6">Guide to the Museum of Flight Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Museum of Flight Oral History Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2019-00-00.100 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Stockard, Betty Riley, 1919- Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Hagedorn, Dan Biographical Text Betty Stockard was among the first specially trained flight attendants and attended a number of celebrities during her time as a flight attendant for United Airlines. She also worked for the Boeing Company. Elizabeth “Betty” Jean Riley Stockard was born on May 16, 1919, in Kalispell, Montana to Valjean Riley and Charlotte Dryer. She graduated high school from Flathead County High School, which is on an Indian Reservation. Her family made their living as farmers, selling dairy products such as butter and milk. Growing up on a dairy farm, Stockard says her favorite food was ice cream due to it being in abundance on the farm. After graduating from high school, Stockard knew she wanted to attend college, so she saved up money working at a women’s dress shop and stayed with a family friend while attending the University of Montana in Missoula. There were only two major options for women at that time at this university: home economics and business. Stockard decided on home economics but took a break before her senior year due to the United States’ involvement in World War II. In 1942 Stockard began working for the Boeing Company at Boeing Field in Washington before seeing a United Airlines job posting regarding “stewardess” (flight attendant) positions. Following this, Stockard began the lengthy interview and training process before becoming a flight attendant. She was among the first women to be specially trained to become flight attendants, as all previous flight attendants had been nurses. During this process, Stockard took her first airplane flight from Seattle, Washington to San Francisco, California. During her time as a flight attendant, Stockard had interactions with a number of celebrities and famous figures, including First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt. Stockard also met her husband, Wallace Raymond Stockard, on a flight she was attending. Stockard also had lengthy experience flying in the Douglas DC-4 airplane that came into use during World War II. After being a flight attendant, Stockard married Wallace Stockard and had four children, three boys and one girl. By 1950, their family was living in San Mateo, California but later returned to the Seattle area. Wallace died in 1990 in Seattle; Betty was still living in the area as of 2014. Biographical information derived from interview and additional information provided by interviewee. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH_Stockard_Elizabeth OH_Stockard_Elizabeth_transcription Title A name given to the resource Betty Riley Stockard oral history interview Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection (2019-00-00-100), Digital Recordings Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Museum of Flight (Seattle, Wash.) Description An account of the resource Born-digital video recording of an oral history with Betty Riley Stockard and interviewer Dan Hagedorn, recorded as part of The Museum of Flight Oral History Program, March 19, 2014. Abstract A summary of the resource. Retired stewardess Betty R. Stockard is interviewed about her career with United Airlines. She discusses her experiences in the airline industry during the 1940s, such as the interview and training process, memorable encounters with passengers, and her flights along the West Coast and to Hawaii. She also recounts a story in which she served as a wartime courier for an important package. Other topics discussed include her childhood and college years in Montana; her thoughts on the Douglas DC-3, DC-4, and DC-6 aircraft; and her life after retiring from United Airlines. Table Of Contents A list of subunits of the resource. Introduction and personal background -- College years -- Move to Seattle and becoming a United Airlines stewardess -- Stewardess career -- Memorable passengers and flights -- Courtship, marriage, and service to Hawaii -- Courier mission -- Flight with former prisoners of war -- In-flight emergency involving a Boeing B-17 aircraft -- Flying a Douglas DC-3 aircraft -- Retirement and family life -- Advice for future generations Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-03-19 Subject The topic of the resource Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress Family Boeing Company Douglas DC-3 Family Douglas DC-4 Family Douglas DC-6 Family Flight attendants King County International Airport Prisoners of war Stockard, Betty Riley, 1919- United Airlines World War, 1939-1945 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant California Chicago (Ill.) Hawaii Illinois Montana Oregon Portland (Or.) San Francisco (Calif.) Seattle (Wash.) United States Washington (State) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 recording (1 hr., 31 min., 26 sec.) : digital Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource oral histories (literary works) born digital Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection/The Museum of Flight Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/bc46a49fc2d02b3f68b4c57b98338a78.mp4 89e90f92731d696fc32c714e4a7a017a https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/fed7196b1162e38f780d82bff4eb0402.pdf dcecc729a911a7447c8843aa3132b91b PDF Text Text The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington Joseph Kimm Interviewed by: Dan Hagedorn Date: May 31, 2013 Location: Redmond, Washington This interview was made possible with generous support from Mary Kay and Michael Hallman 2013 © The Museum of Flight �2 Abstract: Pilot Joseph E. Kimm is interviewed about his decade-spanning aviation career. He discusses his early experiences as a flight steward on Ford Trimotor aircraft, and his time as a copilot and pilot for Northwest Airways (later Northwest Airlines), spanning the 1930s to the 1970s. He also touches on his military service during World War II with Air Transport Command, U.S. Army Air Corps. Other topics discussed include his work building aircraft models, his experiences with various aircraft, and a memorable flight from Minneapolis to Seattle with Amelia Earhart. Biography: Joseph Kimm had a 42-year long career with Northwest Airways and served with the Special Missions Group during World War II. Joseph Edward Kimm was born August 18, 1911 in Minneapolis, Minnesota to Albert Peter and Catherine Kimm. He attended Central High School in Minneapolis, graduating in 1929. Because of the Depression, his family could not afford to send him to college, so he found a job helping make candy at a soda fountain. As a child he enjoyed building model airplanes. At a meeting for model airplane makers he met Walter Bullock, an early aviator who shared Kimm’s hobby. When Kimm quit his job at the soda fountain, Bullock hired him to help make and sell model airplane kits. Bullock also flew for Northwest Airlines and invited Kimm on a flight. Having enjoyed the flight, Kimm then asked Bullock to help him get a job as a flight steward. Kimm was hired by Northwest Airways July 1, 1929 to serve as steward on the then-new Ford Trimotors. His primary task was to keep the airplane cabin clean. Kimm claims to have invented the air sickness bag while he was working as a steward. Realizing that being a pilot would be more a lucrative job, he sought out flight training. He began working for Northwest as co-pilot, and once he had earned his commercial pilot’s license he was promoted to captain in 1933 at the age of 23. His first route was between Fargo and Grand Forks, North Dakota. Over the course of his piloting career, he was involved in opening up two important air routes, one from Minneapolis to Seattle, Washington across the northern Rockies. That flight had Amelia Earhart as a passenger, who was publicizing both her recent book and their historymaking flight. He also opened a route across previously uncharted territory from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada to Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska. Fascination with the P-12E motivated him to join the Army Air Corps Reserves prior to the U.S. entry into World War II. This later led to him being called into wartime active duty in 1941 as one of the few dozen pilots forming the Special Missions Group (Brass Hat Squadron) during the 2013 © The Museum of Flight �3 war. In this role, he flew various dignitaries around the world, including Senator Albert Hawkes, Mexican Air Force General Salinas, and then General Dwight D. Eisenhower. In October 1956, Kimm and Senior Captain “Deke” DeLong marked Northwest’s 30th Anniversary by flying a restored Ford Trimotor coast to coast to mark the occasion. Treated like celebrities at every stop, Kimm and DeLong appeared on the Arthur Godfrey Show in New York. Kimm flew his final Northwest Boeing 707 flight on August 17, 1971. In his retirement years he enjoyed skiing, scuba diving, and delivering Meals on Wheels until he was well into his 90s. Kimm lived to be 102 years old, passing away on September 19, 2013. Biographical information derived from interview and additional information provided by interviewee. Interviewer: Dan Hagedorn served as Senior Curator and Director of Collections at The Museum of Flight from 2008 until his retirement in 2016. Prior to his tenure at TMOF, he was Adjunct Curator and Research Team Leader at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. Hagedorn is a graduate of Villa Maria College, the State University of New York, and the Command and General Staff College, and served in the U.S. Armed Forces for almost three decades. He has written numerous books and articles about aviation history in general and Latin American aviation in particular. For his work in documenting Latin American aviation history, he received the Orden Merito Santos-Dumont from the Brazilian Government in 2006. Since his retirement in 2016, Hagedorn has served as a Curator Emeritus at the Museum. Restrictions: Permission to publish material from The Museum of Flight Oral History Program must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Videography: Videography by TMOF volunteers and staff. Transcript: 2013 © The Museum of Flight �4 Transcribed and reviewed by TMOF volunteers and staff. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �5 Index: Introduction and personal background............................................................................................ 6 Early aviation memories ................................................................................................................. 7 Experiences with model airplanes .................................................................................................. 9 Job as an ice cream and candy maker ........................................................................................... 11 Working with Walter Bullock and job as a flight steward............................................................ 12 Becoming a pilot ........................................................................................................................... 15 Flight from Minneapolis to Seattle in 1933 .................................................................................. 17 Involvement with the Air Line Pilots Association and Quiet Birdmen ........................................ 19 Service with the U.S. Army Air Corps ......................................................................................... 20 Postwar flying career and retirement ............................................................................................ 22 Final questions .............................................................................................................................. 24 2013 © The Museum of Flight �6 Joseph Kimm [START OF INTERVIEW] 00:00:00 [Introduction and personal background] DAN HAGEDORN: We’re in the home of Captain Joe Kimm in Redmond, Washington. Today’s date is Friday, May the 31st, 2013. Captain Kimm, it is our honor and our pleasure to be with you here today. Will you please say your full name for us? JOSEPH KIMM: My name is Joseph Edward Kimm. K-I-M-M. DH: Very good, sir. And when were you born? JK: I was born August 18th, 1911 DH: And you were born where? JK: In Minneapolis, Minnesota. DH: Oh, very good. You’re a Midwesterner, very good. Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Minneapolis, in that area [unintelligible]? JK: Yeah, I grew up in Minneapolis. I was a rather shy kid, you know, four or five years old, afraid of my own shadow. [laughs] And it was interesting because—and it was really because of that shyness that I ended up doing what I did. I remember growing up, my brother and I would be—why, say I was five years old and he would be six. This brother was fifteen months older than me. And we were pals together as children. My mother would put us out in the backyard with a rope around our ankles and then run off and leave us. Herb was very [intelligent?]. He was very capable of untying knots, whereas I could not have untied a knot if my life depended on it. Herb would untie his knot and would start running out of the yard, and I would holler at him, “You got to come and untie mine or I’ll call Mother.” [laughs] DH: Was this your only brother? JK: Oh, no, I had an older brother. But we were just fifteen months apart. DH: And your brother’s names were what, again? JK: This brother I’m speaking of was Herb. DH: Herb. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �7 JK: Herbert. DH: Herbert. Uh-huh [affirmative]. JK: We called him Herb. My oldest brother was Gervaise. DH: And what were your parents’ names? JK: My mother’s name was Catherine. DH: Catherine. JK: My father’s name was Albert. Albert Peter. DH: Very good. JK: [coughs] Well, I remember one occasion where mother ran off and left us tied, and so I hollered and Joe had to—Herb had to come back and let me loose. We untied the knots, and we went off on a wonderful trip around town. They had just tarred the surfaces of the road, and we got out there in our bare feet and walking up and down those tarred roads, and we were in seventh heaven. It was just—my memory of it is just a glorious morning. And, of course, we got all full of tar. And when Mother found us, she was so upset. DH: I’ll bet she was. JK: Yeah. Oh, yeah. DH: That first taste of independence, huh? JK: [laughs] Yeah. DH: What did your dad do for a living? JK: Oh, my dad had his own business, direct mail advertising. DH: I see. Very good. 00:03:28 [Early aviation memories] DH: Now, this is a very special question to me because I think every one of us who’s ever been an aviator has had some experience. What was your very first interest in airplanes? Do you remember it? JK: Well, in the early years, I—my dad would take us down to the athletic club—take Herb and I to the athletic club every Sunday morning. And this one particular Sunday morning, 2013 © The Museum of Flight �8 he said, “Well, just finish up early and get dressed, and I got a deal. We’re going to go out on a little trip.” And it turned out that he was taking us out to Robbinsdale Airport, which was probably 20 miles out of Minneapolis, where I saw my first airplane. DH: Do you remember what it was? JK: Well, it was one of the early—I think it was de Havilland, but I’m not positive. Anyway, there was room up in the front seat for three people. And so we got into that airplane— see, I’m five, six years old, Herb was seven—and we went on our first airplane trip. And it was such a thrill because when they started up the engine and all that noise and all that clutter and everything, it was just getting to us. And we taxied out and took off. And I still remember the flight as one of the greatest thrills of my life. I mean, to be six years old, seven years old, and here we were up in the sky. DH: I think every pilot remembers that memory. JK: Yeah. [laughs] DH: Yeah. Now, I’m going to ask you a very special question. I ask every pilot this, and this is a really tough question for you. What’s your favorite airplane and why? JK: [pauses] I have to be very honest with you. DH: Please do. JK: I love them all. [laughter] DH: Well, I like to tell people my favorite airplanes have propellers on them and round edges. JK: I had no favorite. I loved every airplane that I ever was in equally because, to me, it was such a thrill to be out flying. Never in those early days would I have ever dreamed that I would have flown as much as I did, flown so many different airplanes. I probably have flown at least a dozen different types of airplanes. DH: Sure. Yeah. JK: But it started out with that first flight. And it was a wartime airplane. My memory is not working— DH: That’s okay. That’s fine. JK: —so I can’t tell you exactly. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: 2013 © The Museum of Flight Was it a Waco [unintelligible]? �9 JK: It was a biplane with an engine and two seats, front and back. The pilot sat in the back and flew it. 00:06:49 [Experiences with model airplanes] DH: Now, I remember you—I read about you building model airplanes. That’s an experience that I have, too. When did you start building model airplanes? JK: Well, the model airplanes started when I was about ten years old and Herb was eleven. We got a model of an NC-4 kit to build this model. We built this model airplane in our early teens. It was a beautiful biplane. It was a model of the first airplane that flew across the Atlantic Ocean— DH: Curtis NC-4. Yes, sir. JK: —in 1914. So this was probably four or five years after it had made this first flight. Well, we built this model, and we covered it with Japanese silk. And we had put so much work into it that we were afraid to fly it. And so we ended up taking it up to school, and the teacher hung it up in one of the classrooms. We had a friend, Bob Johnson, about the same age as we, that saw that airplane up there, and it just drove him nuts. And he finally convinced us that we should ask for the airplane and we would take it out and fly it. He wanted to fly it. Well, see, this was probably by the time—as time went along, maybe ten years old by this time. And so we go down to Lake Minnetonka—no, Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis, and we got a boat and took the airplane out. It was rubber-powered, two engines. So we got out into the lake, the three of us, and this beautiful airplane—I mean, it was gorgeous. It was—all this Japanese silk covering instead of paper and all that. Well, we got the engines all wound up, but it was a kind of a windy day and the waves were maybe a foot or two feet high. We should have had more sense, of course, but we didn’t. We were young. We got the engines all wound up, we put the airplane in the water, and the props started turning and waves come over and swamped the airplane. And we finally ended up pulling it out in pieces. DH: Oh, dear. JK: That was the end of that model. Goes to show how stupid kids can be. DH: Well, you were a member of a model airplane club, too, back then, weren’t you? JK: Well, not that—not at that time. All through high school, I started building model airplanes. We didn’t have any money available, so I couldn’t buy any balsa wood, so I used cheese boxes. They came in wooden boxes in those days with nice, neat pine box— 2013 © The Museum of Flight �10 pine wood, maybe three-eighths-of-an-inch thick, and we would shave it off, sticks and make spars and carve all of our stuff out of these—the wood. It wasn’t until after we—I entered a couple of contests and won some of them that I ended up getting balsa wood as a prize. And so I had plenty of balsa wood, and I—all through my high school years, I was building model airplanes and flying them. DH: Well, you built one that got a prize once, didn’t you? Back in 1928? JK: Well, I flew—in 1928, the city of Minneapolis had a… [pauses] What am I trying to say? They had a meeting of all the modelers and a contest. And we had indoor contests and outdoor contests. And I chose the indoor contest because that was the nature of my models. They were small models, needed to have quiet, still air. I remember the day of the contest, my turn came and I wound my airplane up, put it on the floor, and it took off and it circled up. And it was going up to the ceiling, and the thing going just fine, and somebody came and opened the door. And the draft of air out that door—this was in a big, open area—that airplane just took one turn and went— [makes sound effect]—right down and crashed on the floor. But it was up there so long that I ended up winning first prize, and that’s where I got the cup on top of the… [points to cup on top of bookcase] DH: Oh, my—do you remember what airplane type you made? What the model was of? JK: No, it was just a stick model. DH: Oh, one of the stick models. JK: A stick model with a rubber band. DH: Did you have a favorite model that you really thought you did the very best job with? JK: No, I don’t really feel attached to any one particular because I loved them all. DH: I know models had a great deal to do with my interest in aviation. How would you characterize the influence that building models had on your career in aviation? JK: Well, actually, it was the most important thing of all because that’s what I did all through high school, was build model airplanes. I graduated from high school mid-term in January—in December. This was—we had our airplane contest in December of ’28, and right after that, I graduated from high school. Left me mid-term with nothing to do. DH: Where’d you go to high school at? Do you remember the name of the school? JK: Oh, I went to Central High School in Minneapolis. It was probably ten blocks away from my home, and I walked up there and back every day. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �11 00:13:29 [Job as an ice cream and candy maker] DH: And when you graduated, did you—had you resolved already to become a pilot or did you have something else in mind? JK: No. No, I had—this was all—all I do with airplanes, the model airplanes. I had no desire to fly big ones. Never occurred to me. So when I graduated, I’m stuck because I had thought after all the model building, the logical place for me would be to go school and learn to be an aeronautical engineer and build big airplanes. That was what I thought, but when I got—graduated from school, this was 1929, just when the Depression started, and there was no money. My dad didn’t have any money to send me to college. I didn’t have any money. So I got a job working at a town pump, downtown Minneapolis, a place where they had ice cream and sodas and candy and everything for guys to bring their girls in and treat them. Yup. My job was to help the candy maker. Every day we made about fifty gallons of ice cream. While the master chef was setting up the mix for the ice cream, I would be down in this basement pulling all these tins of ice out of the freezer, getting the ice out and putting it through a chopper to chop all the ice up. By the time I got about forty or fifty of those chopped up, why, he’d bring down a hundred gallons of ice cream, and we’d spend the morning churning ice cream. DH: I’ll bet you get sick and tired of ice cream after— JK: No, no. I never got tired of ice cream. [laughs] Well, after we’d do this—that was the morning—in the afternoon, we’d make candy. And I remember we—making taffy. This shows you how primitive things were. I mean, we had no machines to do any of this. Now, when they get the candy mix made, for example, we’d mix up taffy, about forty pounds of it. They had a post with a hook on it. And my job was to take this forty pounds of candy and put it up over the hook, pull it down, swing it, loop it over, pull, loop it over, pull. The purpose, of course, was to get all that air into the [unintelligible] to harden up. Then we’d run up, take the whole bunch over to the table and start pulling it out, and making what we called chicken bones. You might be familiar with those. They were just taffy that was pulled out. Well, I worked at that, and it was really hard work. I was—let’s see, I was twenty years old. No, couldn’t have been twenty years old. I was seventeen, I think. Yeah, seventeen years old. And I was—weighed 160 pounds, and I was—no, I only weighed 120 pounds. And I was six feet tall. DH: Oh, my gosh. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �12 JK: So I was a skinny kid. And actually, the work was too tough. I could not stand it. I could not handle it physically. I’d go home at night so tired out I couldn’t even eat dinner. I worked about three or four weeks at the most, then I finally decided I had to quit. 00:17:19 [Working with Walter Bullock and job as a flight steward] DH: Well, let me ask you this. JK: Hmm? DH: Just to kind of change tactics just a little bit. What’s the name Walter Bullock mean to you? JK: Well, I was just getting to Walter. DH: Good. JK [laughs] Because I’m telling you, it was after this—when I quit my job at the candy shop, I had no job at all. And I ended up—the people that had been in the contest in December decided to have a model airplane club. And I went to the first meeting in January, which was just about the time I was quitting my job. As a matter of fact, I had just quit my job when I went to the first meeting and I met Walter there. Walter Bullock was an early-time aviator. He started flying in 1915. He was, as such, ten years older than me. And Walter was a pilot for Northwest Airways. Well, he also was interested in model airplanes, and he wrote an article for Popular Mechanics on how to build a model of a Ford Trimotor. And people wrote in and said, “Where can we get kits for this,” which forced him into starting a business of building kits. When I met him, he was up to his eyeballs and needed help so bad, he looked at me and he said, “I found out you just quit your job.” He said, “How much were you making?” I said, “I was making twelve dollars a week.” He says, “Okay, I’ll pay you twelve dollars a week, you come work for me.” So I went to work for Walter. And I go to his basement, and we make parts and put them together into kits and fill out orders and mail them out. He had written an article in Popular Mechanics, how to build a model of a Ford Trimotor, and everybody and their brother was trying to get—they wanted kits. They were just—it put everybody afire. DH: Do you remember how many you put together, how many you sold? JK: [laughs] I have no idea. Hundreds, anyway. It was a beautiful model. You put the pieces together, and when you got through, you covered them with a little bit of—with a 2013 © The Museum of Flight �13 metal—thin metal, which [unintelligible] roller, so it had little grooves in it. But they were beautiful models. DH: So did Walter lead you to Northwest Airlines and your subsequent career? JK: Well, no, he didn’t lead me to—it didn’t work that way. Well, keep in mind now, I’m a shy kid, but by this time I’ve learned that if I want anything, I have to go and get it because people don’t bring it around and give it to you. And so I was accustomed to taking care of my own problems. When I found out—talked to Walter—Walter took me on a trip—he would do test flights, that he took me on a test flight one time. And then I found out that they had flight stewards on those things. So I got up my nerve, and I said to Walter, “If you give me a job as a flight steward, I’ll work for you on my days off for nothing.” Nothing was said but—well, before that, he had taken me on the flight, so I knew what the airplane was like. And that was what enamored me and got me courage enough to— DH: Was this a Ford Trimotor? JK: Yeah, it was a Ford Trimotor. When I found out they had flight stewards, I didn’t see any reason why I couldn’t do that. So about a month after that, two months after that, Walter comes home one day and he said, “You get your parents’ permission and you can go with me on my flight to Chicago tomorrow morning.” Well, I mean, I was walking on clouds all the way home. [laughs] And I get home—I mean, it’s just like yesterday—I said, “Mom, Walter says I can go to Chicago with him on his flight tomorrow morning if I get your permission.” Mom clouded up. “Oh, son,” she says, “you better go ask your father.” So I went to Dad. “Dad, Walter says I can go to Chicago with him on his flight tomorrow morning if I get your permission.” “Oh, son, you better go ask your mother.” Now, this is absolutely exactly how it happened. I had decided the two no’s had to be yes. And the reason that they were—he was taking me on this flight was because they had lost their first airplane two weeks before this, and the pilot had been killed. And was taking off of Saint Paul up over the bluffs, and the engine stalled out, and they—the airplane came down, and the pilot was killed because he was in the front seat with the copilot. The flight steward and the passengers came through it okay with just bumps and bruises. And so Bobby Johnson that had talked us into taking our model airplane out and flying it, was—happened to be the flight steward. He was the same build as me. So that evening I went over to Saint Paul at the hospital, got his uniform, and took it home. It had some burn holes in it from flaming—fire pieces and some blood spots on it, and I spent the evening wiping off the blood spots and coloring out the white stiffening behind the burn 2013 © The Museum of Flight �14 holes with blue ink so that it didn’t show them. And that’s the uniform I wore the next morning. DH: I’ll bet that’s the only time a flight steward ever used a uniform like that. JK: [laughs, coughs] I was thrilled to death with the job. I was just absolutely in seventh heaven. But it was a tough job because they had no—well, first of all, we were flying at 100 miles an hour. And that was unheard-of speed, you know. Cars on the highway were doing 25, 30 miles an hour, and here is this airplane, 100 miles an hour. And my job was to keep a tidy cabin. So the air was rough most of the time because we were always flying—we didn’t know how to fly instruments, so we were flying official reference to the ground at all times. And sometimes we’d get forced down to maybe 200 or 300 feet, and it’d get pretty dicey. And we would end up looking for a farmer’s field and stop and wait until the weather got better. But that’s still beside the story that I’m telling you. Anyway, I found that people were getting sick. And all the company had given me to take care of the cabin was a broom and a dustpan. Well, I got pretty dismal when I had people throwing up on the walls and on the floors and everything. So I decided that we had to have a better way of taking care of this, and I went down to the grocery store and bought some paper bags of a suitable size with my own money. And so I claimed to have invented the barf bag. DH: [laughs] JK: Well, I would bring the bags on the trip with me. Now, here we have an airplane with a toilet in it, but it has a funnel that opens to the outside. And I would take these bags down, and I would see a person about to get sick—you’d have to see it immediately, you know exactly when they’re going to—I would hand him a bag and he would be using it, then I’d snap another bag, grab that one, hand him the fresh bag and I’d run like mad down to the back down of the ship, kick the door open, and throw the bag out. Now, if I worked fast enough, I would get there before the bottom fell out, which—that was my incentive for speed. Anything we didn’t want on the airplane, we threw it out, after everything had blown to bits. This was the concepts in those days. DH: So did this have anything to do with your decision to take flight training, so you could get out of all the collecting of the barf bags? JK: Well, it was only logical that—I came to the conclusion that I was doing all of the work, and I was getting only $78 a month. And the pilot didn’t do anything but sit up in front and fly that thing. And he got $700 a month. Well, as part of this story, of course, when I got my job and got the $78 a month, my dad said, “Joe, don’t you think now you should be able to pay a little room and board?” I said, 2013 © The Museum of Flight �15 “How much do you think it’s worth, Dad?” He said, “Oh, I’d say $30 a month.” I said, “Okay, I’ll pay it.” So it got towards winter. I was—to get to the airport, I would walk four blocks to the bus line, take the bus line cross town, get off the bus, get on a street car, take it to the end of the line, walk a mile to the airport, and get there for my first flight to Chicago and back. It took twelve hours to get to Chicago and back. When I came home, I reversed the procedure. Didn’t take me very long to figure out I had to have a car. Well, my brother Herb says, “I’ll buy one with you.” I said, “Fine.” So on that basis, I bought a brand new Model A Ford Coupe, $725. And I paid the down payment, which was around $200. I had saved it. And the first payment comes due, and Herb doesn’t have any money. DH: Oh, dear. JK: “I don’t have any money.” So I’m the only one who’s putting any money into it. I said, “Okay, so I’ll pay for it.” So $30 to my Dad, $35 to the car for two years, I had lived on $13 a month extra. And that’s what I used to do everything. [laughs] Well— DH: So when did you start— JK: You see, this shy kid is a stubborn kid, also. 00:29:13 [Becoming a pilot] DH: So when did you actually start to think about becoming a pilot yourself? Is that—did that lead to that? JK: What’s that? DH: When did you first decide to become a pilot yourself? JK: Well, see, I had figured out all of this right at the very beginning. I figured I had the wrong job, naturally, and the only way I could do what he was doing was to learn to fly. Well, here I was $13 a month. There was no money to buy any flying. I go into the company. I can still see Rosy Stein’s face. Rosy Stein was the assistant to the president. And this is a small company that only had a very few people in it. So I said to her, “I would like to borrow one of those Waco 10s out there.” There were two Waco 10s left over from their flight school days. They weren’t using them, but they kept them. “I’d like to borrow one of those airplanes.” She was shocked. I mean, there was just no question about it, looking at her face. Finally, she said, “You’d have to pay for the gas and oil.” I said, “I can do that.” Gasoline was only 19 cents a gallon. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �16 So now we’ve got an airplane. I go to Chad Smith. Chad Smith is one of the pilots that was flying—that I flew with. I said, “Chad, I have an airplane. Will you teach me to fly?” Chad says, “Sure, I’ll do that.” So he soloed me. DH: How long did it take you to solo? JK: Six hours. DH: Six hours? JK: Well, you see, I had been getting some time up sitting in the cockpit in flight, so I didn’t have to get accustomed to being in the air or anything. DH: Six hours. That’s not too bad, though. JK: So then I ended up flying and building up my time. I got 50 hours, and I got my commercial license. And then I—nothing changed. I’m still a flight attendant, and that’s it. But I got my license finally, and about the time that I got my license, within 30 days, the government came out with a new ruling stating that they had to have two pilots on aircraft weighing 12,500 pounds or more. Now, the only airplane that fit that description was a Ford Trimotor. Exactly 12,500 pounds, which meant they had to have two pilots now, instead of just one. It was only natural then, with my license, that I became a copilot. And the copilot, I think I was making $140 a month. DH: How long did you spend in the right-hand seat? JK: I flew that—when I got to be 23 years old, I finally got a commercial license—I mean, what’s required of a real captain. And as soon as I got that license, I remember being given a promotion to captain. DH: You became a Captain at 23? JK: Yeah. DH: Oh, my gosh. JK: My first job was to go to Fargo, North Dakota. And I flew from Fargo to Grand Forks to [unintelligible] and turn around and came back. And then there was another guy, Clarence Bates, doing the same thing. But between us, we kept the station open, also. So we were station masters on our off days and captains on the alternate, just switching back and forth, so they were covered for the whole station. DH: Let me ask you this. Do you still have your first wings? Your first wings you wore on your uniform? JK: I have no idea. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �17 00:33:45 [Flight from Minneapolis to Seattle in 1933] DH: Okay. Now, in 1933, after you’d been a captain for a while, you flew a very special flight from the Twin Cities to Seattle. Can you tell us a little bit about that flight? JK: Well, yes. That flight was made in January of 1933 and was made to prove that you could fly from Minneapolis to Seattle during the winter, which everybody thought would be impossible. And that was a trip that we made—Huey Rueschenberg was the captain, I was the copilot. Croil Hunter went along, and then he had invited our friend— DK: Amelia Earhart. JK: —Amelia Earhart to join us. DH: Did you know who she was at the time? JK: Oh, yeah. She had just flown across the ocean. Everybody knew Amelia Earhart. She was flying—she was going out to Portland, Oregon, to a speaking engagement and accepted Croil’s invitation to ride on this proving flight, as far as Spokane, anyway. So she was with us when we flew the first day from Minneapolis to Bismarck. Had a big dinner at the governor’s mansion that night, just the crew and the governor’s family. The next day, we took off and flew to Billings, had a big luncheon the Chamber of Commerce put on for us. After we did that, we then took off to Helena that afternoon, had a big dinner at the governor’s mansion in Helena. And the following morning, we were finally on our final episode to cross the mountains. Well, there was a gentleman we met at the party, an old-time rancher who claimed to have known the mountains like he knew the back of his hand. And he offered to go along with us and show us how to get through the mountains, which we thought was a good idea. It was just Huey and I, the president, and Amelia and this guy, take off the next morning at Helena. So as soon as we got airborne, he says, “You go up this canyon here.” So we flew up the canyon. We get into a horrendous storm, and it was raining so hard we can’t see anything except straight down and out the side. And right in the middle of this storm, he comes up and he says, “You got to turn around. This is a blind gorge. I’m sorry. I made a mistake.” Well, we couldn’t turn around till we got out of that weather, so naturally we’re sweating for quite a bit there, then finally get out, turn around, and go back through it. So he says, “Now, I’m sorry, but this is the one you should have gone up.” So we went up, and to make a long story short, same thing. By this time, Huey had had about all he could handle. Now, he was a very quiet individual, not very prone to speaking out or anything. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �18 He turned and he said, “Mr. [Sheriff?], thank you for your help, but we don’t—we will get along okay. Why don’t you just go back and sit there and get comfortable and we’ll fly it.” So we went on without [Sheriff’s?] help. And we got to Mullen Pass, and there was absolutely no way in the world we would get over Mullen Pass because it was clouds right on top of mountain. And so we started back, and we went back as far as…my mind is… DH: Don’t worry about it. JK: there’s a town there that’s nestled up against the mountains, and behind it there was a Vshape like this. [demonstrates with his hands] And you could look through and see something on the other side. We didn’t know what. We couldn’t understand. We’re in territory we know nothing about. Hugh has the courage to go up and go through that gap, and we get over to the other side, and we see there’s a river that goes like this. [makes a snaking pattern] And so we follow this river, and it rainsqualls occasionally and can’t see hardly anything, then they clear up. And we end up to the—where we end up at the north end of Coeur d’ Alene Lake, which is a long lake on the west side of the mountains. And all—for all practical purposes, when we went through that gap at Missoula—Missoula was the name of the town—we had actually crossed the mountains. So we get into—when we get into the Spokane Airport, we ran into a snowsquall just as we got to the airport. And when we got—when we landed, it was snowing great big flakes of snow. And we taxied up the ramp, and there was a whole bunch of United Airline pilots there sitting out the weather. They wondered how they got—wondered how they squeezed from Minnesota, got that airplane into that field. We didn’t tell them it was clear as a bell until we got within two or three miles from the airport. [laughter] Well, we went downtown. My job—Croil said, “I want you to make arrangements for rooms for all of us and get something real nice for Amelia Earhart. I mean, something.” So I went to the hotel. Here I am—let’s see, at that time I’m 21 years old, still a shy kid, but I got a job to do. So I go to the Davenport Hotel and make arrangements for a room for Croil and a room for Huey and I and then, “So we have a very special guest with us. We’d like to have a nice stateroom for her. Amelia Earhart.” So, “We have a suite of rooms.” I said, “I’d like to see it.” So they took me up, and here was the suite, two bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen, and a dining room, just really first class. That was $75 a night. I said, “We’ll take it.” Our rooms cost $15. [laughs, coughs] So when Croil came in and saw what we had for Amelia Earhart, he was thrilled to death because nobody had come—called us up, nobody knew we were coming. And he said, “We’re going to have a banquet in Amelia’s 2013 © The Museum of Flight �19 suite.” So we arranged for the hotel to furnish a full-class dinner to be served in Amelia’s dining room that evening when just the five or six of us were in there at that meeting. DH: Did you get to talk to her very much? What were your impressions? JK: I got to talk to her a little bit but not—I mean, nothing really special. It was just nice to know her. As a matter of fact, I have a picture on the kitchen wall that I took of her in the suite with my Brownie camera. It’s hanging on the cupboard. DH: Okay. We’ll take a look at that after a while. JK: Yeah, you’ll have to take a look. 00:42:12 [Involvement with the Air Line Pilots Association and Quiet Birdmen] DH: Well, that’s wonderful. Let me just jump it forward a little bit. I understand that you had a central role in the Air Line Pilots Association, ALPA, during you career. JK: A separate role? DH: A central role in the Air Line Pilots Association? JK: Well, I really joined the Air Line Pilots Association—I was one of the original founders, but that’s the only thing I can relate to that. I mean, that— DH: Did you think it was necessary at the time to have something like ALPA for the pilots’ benefit? JK: Oh, definitely, we—that was the pilots’ idea, and they—see, we used to meet pilots from other airlines when we flew into Chicago. And that was—the only conversations were among pilots that were flying into Chicago. We’d meet there. W’d get tagged up with weather sometimes and we’d sit around, be talking about the job and all that. And it was that meeting of those guys that they decided to form an association. And so the ALPA was founded basically in that manner. And they got together, and I didn’t have any real part in the structure. I was just a kid. DH: Sure. JK: The pilots all took care of that. But I was a charter member. DH: Very good. I think you were also inducted into the Quiet Birdmen as well, weren’t you? JK: Yes, I joined the QBs. That was another interesting association. They’re very important to all of us, the QBs. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �20 DH: Do you remember when you were inducted? JK: No, it had to be early in the—probably in the ‘30s sometime. I don’t have any recollection of any particular moment. 00:44:27 [Service with the U.S. Army Air Corps] DH: Sure. Now, you enlisted in—at the very beginning of World War II, didn’t you? JK: Well, no. I didn’t enlist, really. That came about in a rather subtle way. After I got my job as a captain, I’m flying back and forth to Chicago, and every time I land east, I look out my window as I’m flying. Here is an Air Force base that has a bunch of airplanes in a row. And I look down, and they were Army pursuit ships. Gee, it’d be a lot of fun to fly one of those. But I keep looking at them. So finally, after some period of time, I decided that I had to fly one of those. And in order to do it—I looked into it, and in order to do it, I had to join the Enlisted Reserves, after which I could then apply for a rating and I could get to fly one. This took about—it took a year because I had to take a correspondence course. I took this correspondence course over a period of a year on learning how to be an officer and a gentleman. And I was flying into Chicago from Minneapolis about every other day, spending maybe four hours on the ground in between the time I landed and the time—and I thought that would be a wonderful time to go and fly one of those P-12Es. So I went through all that. It took a year. That just shows you the stubbornness part of me. Finally, I got my application in for flight duty, and so I got my check flight. And they taught me—I mean, they checked me out in the P-12E, and so now I’m a second lieutenant in the military. This is in 1938. Well, there was a war coming along, and I debated whether it was really smart to take the risk of being in the war, but I decided that I had to do it. It just—that was just not going to deter me. So I ended up on my next flight—after I got qualified and got my check write-off, I waited until the next trip I went to Chicago. It was a beautiful day. I parked my airplane. I have four hours. I came over to the squadron, drew a P-12E, and taxied out and decided to go north of town. And I end up flying up just around Evanston and doing loops. And I didn’t know much about stunting. Only thing I really knew how to do was to do spins because when Chad Smith checked me out, he had me do spins until he told me to stop. And after about a week or two, I said, “You still want me doing spins?” “Sure,” he says. “You can quit now.” [laughter] But he had no idea. I spun and spun and spun for two weeks every day. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �21 Well, so here I am ten years later, and here I am in this wonderful airplane, and I—after trying loops and Immelmanns and things of that kind, so I decided to loop—I mean, to spin it. And I pulled it up. The second I pulled the stick back, all of a sudden it kicks off, and it goes around and around. And I went on to do my other stunt work. Finally, I decided that has to spin tighter than that. So I decided to take it up and snap roll it into a spin, which is a process where you line up the airplane, you kick the rudder, and pull the stick back sharply, and the airplane goes up and over and down. I think I’d been doing all this other work at 3,000 feet. I figured, well, I better go up higher for some reason or other. So I went to 6,000 feet. Got it all squared away, slowed it down, kicked the rudder, and pulled the stick back, and it went [makes sound effect] and started spinning tighter and tighter. And I reversed controls and nothing happened. I went down to 5,000 feet, 4,000 feet, to 3,000 feet, and I thought, I got to get out of this thing. It’s not coming out. So I unfastened my seatbelt and had a hold of the ripcord on my parachute and one hand on the cockpit side, and I stepped over the side of the airplane—or got one foot on the wing and was out in there in the air about like this [leans to the side], ready to pull the cord as soon as I got clear, and the airplane started to slow down. I got back in, and I rode it out. Two thousand feet, 1,500 feet, got down to 1,000 feet, and it finally came out. I want to tell you, I was one scared cookie. That’s something I’ll never forget. DH: A little bit different than flying a Ford Trimotor, huh? JK: [laughs] Well, you know, I never flew another Army airplane. I didn’t— DH: So you had a reserve commission. Did you serve— JK: So I’m in the reserves, and I don’t pay any attention to anything. So 1941 comes around, and we go to war, and they called me into active duty. And the only experience I’d had was that one session with that one spin. Well, I was disappointed because I was making $1,500 a month as a captain, and I ended up in the military at $244.50, which was quite a jolt. As it turned out, it was a blessing in disguise, of course, because I look at my service in the military as a very important part of my growing up. DH: Were you with Air Transport Command or— JK: I ended up with the—in the Special Missions Group, which is a group based in Washington, D.C. that provided service to all the important VIPs, Very Important People, that wanted to go someplace. And during the war, there was always somebody going someplace. Admirals, generals, congressmen, you name it. Anybody that had enough clout to get an airplane would come to the Special Missions Group and get one with a crew. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �22 DH: I’ll bet you may have flown a very specially-equipped Douglas B-18. It was fitted out as a transport. Because they had one in that unit. JK: A what? DH: A Douglas B-18? It looked like a DC-3? JK: No, I flew mostly heavier aircraft. [coughs] We flew… [pauses] The B-29s were one thing that were also made into cargo ships. DH: Yes. JK: And we flew—let’s see. It’s my mind. My mind is just not working. DH: That’s okay. Don’t worry about it. JK: I could find it in all that stuff. There were several aircraft that I flew during the war, but they were all four-engine, taking people all through the Pacific Theater. At the height of the war, I was flying into Manila and all the areas where all the fighting was taking on, but fortunately never got shot down. All through Europe. It was a wonderful experience, three and a half years of it. 00:54:00 [Postwar flying career and retirement] DH: That’s wonderful. What finally brought you out to Seattle on a permanent basis? JK: [coughs ] Well, I think the fact that I was growing tired of the flying from Seattle to Chicago. I mean, there was other fields. By that time, the government—the company had started flying to the Orient. And that intrigued me, but in order to fly to the Orient, I had to move to Seattle. So I put in my bid for the Orient and checked out—flew out from Minneapolis to Seattle. I moved—I think it was in November of ‘57. Yeah. And I came out here, and I started flying to the Orient. DH: Were you flying DC-7s then? JK: No, we were flying—to start with, we were flying Electras, and then we went through… [pauses] Well, basically, it’s all in there. [points to logbooks on table] DH: Okay. JK: I just—my mind doesn’t seem to function anymore. But I flew all the four-engine stuff. DH: You went all the way from the Ford Trimotor to the Boeing 747. JK: Yeah, it’s on the last page of that. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �23 DH: Right. Can you tell us about the—your experience when the first 747 rolled out that you saw? JK: [pauses] DH: Do you remember that? The first time you saw a 747? JK: I never got to fly a 747. DH: Okay. Were you there when the first one was rolled out for Northwest? JK: Northwest had the first 747s in about 1958 or so. But they would not check me out in the 747 because Nyrop [Donald Nyrop] says, “It cost too much money, $50,000, and I’m not going to spend that kind of money to let you fly something for just one year.” And I said, “Well, you have to. I have a contract.” He said, “Well, file a grievance,” knowing full well the grievance process was going to take so long that I’d be over the age of eight— over— DH: Now, I understand you took up a hobby of some kind as a result of that experience. Is that true? JK: Well, I took up a lot of hobbies. I was crushed when they took my license away from me at age 60 because I was healthy, really healthy, and there was no necessity for it. DH: I understand JK: There was just one man’s opinion, Donald Nyrop, who was [unintelligible] a nice guy, but I never forgave him for what he did there. Anyhow, I had about eighteen months—no, eight months or so to fly, and I decided I was going to probably—going to use up my sick leave. And the best way to do that was to take up skiing and end up falling and breaking a leg, and then I used up all my sick leave. That way I’d get even with them. [laughs] Well, I fell down more mountainsides than you can think of and never, ever ended up hurting myself. And I flew until I was 95 years old, and I enjoyed all of it. But I finally quit because it was just too much effort. DH: Did you own your own airplane? JK: Huh? DH: Did you own your own airplane? JK: Oh, just for a brief moment I had an interest in a Mohawk Pinto. But another thing I got into after I retired: here I was sitting around healthy and nothing to do. And I ended up with retirement income, which was not great, but it should have been enough to take care of me. So I took up scuba diving when I was 60, and I dove in the diving here in the 2013 © The Museum of Flight �24 islands. I joined a club called the Prop Dodgers, and every month we’d take a boat out of Anacortes and go out into the Sound and find a place to dive. I dove as deep as 100 feet, and I enjoyed it, thoroughly enjoyed it. But I did that until I was about 75 years old, and then I put that aside. And the most difficult part was to keep active, trying to find things to keep active with. DH: I understand. JK: That was a tough time. DH: You have had a spectacular flying career in the course of your life. If you had something that you would like to pass along to the next generation of pilots, if you had something that you wanted to tell them that would be important for them to know, what would it be? JK: I don’t know. You just have to go with the flow. And my life has been so wonderful in spite of all of the bad parts, where you have close escapes and stuff of that kind. I truthfully can say that my life was so wonderful, I would cheerfully do the whole thing over again. How many people can say that? DH: Well, that’s all the questions we have for you, sir. Do you have anything you’d like to tell us? JK: No, I have no advice. 01:00:26 [Final questions] DH: Gentlemen, do you have anything you’d like to add? GEOFF NUNN: What was your ski resort of choice? I’m also— JK: My what? DH: Your ski resort. GN: Your ski resort. Where did you go to ski regularly? JK: Well, I skied mostly up at the Summit. GN: Okay. JK: No, not the Summit, but— GN: Stevens? JK: Stevens Pass. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �25 GN I’m a Stevens Pass skier myself. JK: My favorite. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. I skied until I was 95, and then I decided that was enough. DH: Penny, do you have any questions you can think of you’d like to add? PENNY: [unintelligible] What was your favorite place to fly to? DH: What was your favorite destination as a pilot? JK: Well, you know, when you’re flying, you don’t have any requirements or any—wherever it was, it was interesting. I’m happy that I—in all of my flying, instead of having to fly, say, between Minneapolis and Chicago, and never having done anything else, that would have been sad. But the flying I did took me all over the world. I flew so many places. I would—I mean, I loved it all. DH: Did you have any close calls? JK: Yeah, a couple. DH: Any you want to tell us about? UV: How about the one with the engine [unintelligible], Dad? JK: Well, I think the first one happened about 1932,’33, when we were flying a flight to Chicago. It was a nice, sunny day, and we ended up flying at 5,000 feet. We had about 12 passengers, Ford Trimotor. I’m flying the airplane, and the captain is just sitting there. And all of a sudden, there’s a tremendous jolt. And the captain immediately reached up and started cutting switches and pulling throttles back, and I said, “What’s going on?” He says, “Take a look out here.” I got out of my seat and got over and looked over, and there’s—I said, “The engine’s gone.” He said, “Well, look down, look down.” So I looked down further, and here the engine is lying in the landing gear. About 15 inches of the propeller had broken off. One made one turn this way, the engine made a turn the opposite direction and rolled out and broke the [unintelligible] and landed down. Now, we had sat around Chicago for lots and lots of arguments about what would happen, for example, when an engine fell off an airplane. And everybody agreed that you wouldn’t be able to—about half of everybody said you wouldn’t be able to hold it and the other half said it wouldn’t make any difference. Nobody knew. And here it was the first time it had ever happened. Well, we didn’t really know what was going to happen till we got rid of it, and the pilot decided he couldn’t land with that there. So we went out in the middle of the river and we lined up with the river and he dropped the nose and wiggled the tail with the rudder 2013 © The Museum of Flight �26 pedals and shook the engine loose and it tumbled off. So we went in and landed, and he landed with the right gear. We went along fine until we dropped down, caught, and it caught the wheel and the airplane swerved around and the tail comes up like this [leans forward] and then fell back. [laughter] So we got through it. So we ended up going into the airport—or the hangar, and after a few minutes the telephone rang and a voice said, “Anybody lose an engine around there?” Here we thought we were dropping this engine in the water so it wouldn’t hurt anybody, not realizing that when you’re traveling at 100 miles an hour, you’re throwing it, too. And we threw it far enough to land in a field about 200 feet from where a guy was building a chicken coup. So he was the one that called us. Well, the company recovered the engine. Mechanics were kind enough to cut the pistons in half and [unintelligible] made me an ashtray. That’s up there on top. [points to top of bookcase] DH: That’s wonderful JK: You can probably see that. DH: I see one up there. I see it. JK: Yeah. DH: Well, thank you very much, sir. We have enjoyed this so much. I don’t want to wear you out. I think we’ve got more than enough. GN: Yeah. Do you want to—just, you know, let you guys relax and get a couple of close-up shots of some of the things that he mentioned. DH: Would you mind if we took some— JK: No, no. You’re welcome to take pictures of any of these. DH: Very good. JK: This is my life around here. DH: I can see that. JK: [points off camera] That one over there, I was elected to the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame. So if you want any information, you can go into the Internet, type the name “Joe Kimm,” and you’ll come up with quite a bit of information. DH: Oh, we’ve already done that. JK: You’ve done that. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �27 DH: We’ve done that. UV: Now, Kim, my niece, has some more stories if you’re interested. DH: We sure would. And would love to see the rest of those tapes that she did sometime, too. I know that this is just very superficial, but this is—we wanted to start with this. And maybe at some point, we can come back [unintelligible] and see you again if we need to. JK: Yeah. I’m here. I can’t guarantee how long because, actually, I find that I’m sliding pretty far now. DH: I understand, sir. I don’t want to wear you out. That’s the thing. JK: I’m okay so long as I’m sitting here. DH: Okay. JK: It was kind of you to come by and give me a chance to tell my story, because I’m really kind of proud of it. DH: Thank you so much. We are so much in your debt, believe me. We owe you. JK: Well, you don’t owe me anything, but I’m happy to know that you’ll do something with it. DH: We will. Yes, sir. JK: And I’m sure that you’ll be interested in the tapes that Kim has. And she’d be happy to— DH: And we would sure like to see your logbooks. If you ever decide you want to give your logbooks a good home, we would sure love to have them at the Museum, unless you want to keep them in the family. We regard logbooks as the most primary of all documents, in terms of research and authenticity. JK: What do you do with logbooks besides putting them in a drawer someplace? DH: Researchers use them. All the time. Last year, we had over 1,500 researchers at the Museum researching aviation history. And logbooks are a primary source. JK: Well, I haven’t decided what to do with my logbooks. I think the two areas that are possibly interested in it would be— DH: I just want to let you know. JK: —Museum of Flight and also, Northwest retirement. 2013 © The Museum of Flight �28 DH: Sure. Well, you let us know. If you ever decide you want to do that, we would love—I just want to let you know that we would love to have them in the collection. We would love to have them. 01:08:24 [END OF INTERVIEW] 2013 © The Museum of Flight � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Museum of Flight Oral History Collection Description An account of the resource The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection chronicles the personal stories of individuals in the fields of aviation and aerospace, from pilots and engineers to executives. This collection, which dates from 2013 to present, consists of digital video recordings and transcripts, which illustrate these individuals’ experiences, relationship with aviation, and advice for those interested in the field. By the end of 2019, approximately 76 interviews will have had been conducted. The interviews range in length from approximately 20 minutes to 4 hours and 45 minutes. Most interviews are completed in one session, but some participants were interviewed over multiple occasions. The personal stories in this collection span much of the modern history of flight, from the Golden Age of Aviation in the 1930s, to the evolution of jet aircraft in the mid-twentieth century, to the ongoing developments of the Space Age. The selected interviewees represent a wide range of career paths and a diverse cross-section of professionals, each of whom made significant contributions to their field. Among the many interviewees are Calvin Kam, a United States Army veteran who served as a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War; Robert “Bob” Alexander, a mechanical engineer who helped design the Hubble Telescope; and Betty Riley Stockard, a flight attendant during the 1940s who once acted as a secret parcel carrier during World War II. The production of the videos was funded by Mary Kay and Michael Hallman. Processing and cataloging of the videos was made possible by a 4Culture "Heritage Projects" grant. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-current Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Museum of Flight (Seattle, Wash.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource oral histories (literary works) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/6">Guide to the Museum of Flight Oral History Collection</a> Language A language of the resource English Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Museum of Flight Oral History Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2019-00-00.100 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kimm, Joseph Edward, 1911-2013 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Hagedorn, Dan Biographical Text Joseph Kimm had a 42-year long career with Northwest Airways and served with the Special Missions Group during World War II. Joseph Edward Kimm was born August 18, 1911 in Minneapolis, Minnesota to Albert Peter and Catherine Kimm. He attended Central High School in Minneapolis, graduating in 1929. Because of the Depression, his family could not afford to send him to college, so he found a job helping make candy at a soda fountain. As a child he enjoyed building model airplanes. At a meeting for model airplane makers he met Walter Bullock, an early aviator who shared Kimm’s hobby. When Kimm quit his job at the soda fountain, Bullock hired him to help make and sell model airplane kits. Bullock also flew for Northwest Airlines and invited Kimm on a flight. Having enjoyed the flight, Kimm then asked Bullock to help him get a job as a flight steward. Kimm was hired by Northwest Airways July 1, 1929 to serve as steward on the then-new Ford Trimotors. His primary task was to keep the airplane cabin clean. Kimm claims to have invented the air sickness bag while he was working as a steward. Realizing that being a pilot would be more a lucrative job, he sought out flight training. He began working for Northwest as co-pilot, and once he had earned his commercial pilot’s license he was promoted to captain in 1933 at the age of 23. His first route was between Fargo and Grand Forks, North Dakota. Over the course of his piloting career, he was involved in opening up two important air routes, one from Minneapolis to Seattle, Washington across the northern Rockies. That flight had Amelia Earhart as a passenger, who was publicizing both her recent book and their history-making flight. He also opened a route across previously uncharted territory from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada to Anchorage and Fairbanks, Alaska. Fascination with the P-12E motivated him to join the Army Air Corps Reserves prior to the U.S. entry into World War II. This later led to him being called into wartime active duty in 1941 as one of the few dozen pilots forming the Special Missions Group (Brass Hat Squadron) during the war. In this role, he flew various dignitaries around the world, including Senator Albert Hawkes, Mexican Air Force General Salinas, and then General Dwight D. Eisenhower. In October 1956, Kimm and Senior Captain “Deke” DeLong marked Northwest’s 30th Anniversary by flying a restored Ford Trimotor coast to coast to mark the occasion. Treated like celebrities at every stop, Kimm and DeLong appeared on the Arthur Godfrey Show in New York. Kimm flew his final Northwest Boeing 707 flight on August 17, 1971. In his retirement years he enjoyed skiing, scuba diving, and delivering Meals on Wheels until he was well into his 90s. Kimm lived to be 102 years old, passing away on September 19, 2013. Biographical information derived from interview and additional information provided by interviewee. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joseph Kimm oral history interview Description An account of the resource Born-digital video recording of an oral history with Joseph Kimm and interviewer Dan Hagedorn, recorded as part of The Museum of Flight Oral History Program, May 31, 2013. Abstract A summary of the resource. Pilot Joseph E. Kimm is interviewed about his decade-spanning aviation career. He discusses his early experiences as a flight steward on Ford Trimotor aircraft, and his time as a copilot and pilot for Northwest Airways (later Northwest Airlines), spanning the 1930s to the 1970s. He also touches on his military service during World War II with Air Transport Command, U.S. Army Air Corps. Other topics discussed include his work building aircraft models, his experiences with various aircraft, and a memorable flight from Minneapolis to Seattle with Amelia Earhart. Table Of Contents A list of subunits of the resource. Early aviation memories -- Experiences with model airplanes -- Job as an ice cream and candy maker -- Working with Walter Bullock and job as a flight steward -- Becoming a pilot -- Flight from Minneapolis to Seattle in 1933 -- Involvement with the Air Line Pilots Association and Quiet Birdmen -- Service with the U.S. Army Air Corps -- Postwar flying career and retirement -- Final questions Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2013-05-31 Subject The topic of the resource Air pilots Air pilots, Military Airplanes--Models; Bullock, Walter, 1889-1986 Earhart, Amelia, 1897-1937 Flight attendants Kimm, Joseph Edward, 1911-2013 Northwest Airways, Inc. United States. Army. Air Corps Waco (OH) 10 Family World War, 1939-1945 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Chicago (Ill.) Illinois Minneapolis (Minn.) Minnesota Seattle (Wash.) Spokane (Wash.) United States Washington (State) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Museum of Flight (Seattle, Wash.) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 recording (1 hr., 8 min., 24 sec.) : digital Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource oral histories (literary works) born digital Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection (2019-00-00-100), Digital Recordings Language A language of the resource English Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Museum of Flight Oral History Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH_Kimm_Joseph OH_Kimm_Joseph_transcription https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/bb1a559c23eea3ea8a510cf36827cbe1.JPG 0621a69a80fdd2c6a1115c5d623cf48f https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/3f9539bdef5590016927768b6f8b47a3.JPG b20a3d5155736398eb936831e8a03553 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Subseries XV-B - Moya Olsen Lear, 1950-2001, undated Description An account of the resource Moya Olsen Lear, 1950-2001, undated Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000-06-20, Subseries II-B Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000-06-20_image_576_01 2000-06-20_image_576_02 Title A name given to the resource [Moya O. Lear serving refreshments to passengers on Friendship One] Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The William P. and Moya Olsen Lear Papers (2000-06-20), Box 179, Folder 7 Description An account of the resource Photograph of Moya O. Lear serving refreshments to passengers on the Friendship One Boeing 747SP aircraft, circa 1988. Inscription on verso: "F10-5." Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1988 circa Subject The topic of the resource Lacy, Clay, 1932- Boeing Model 747SP (747-100SP) Commuter aircraft Transport planes Friendship One Flight attendants Airplane occupants Aircraft cabins Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 photograph : color ; 4 x 6 in Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource photographic prints Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The William P. and Moya Olsen Lear Papers/The Museum of Flight Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright undetermined https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/482fcba0fd5ff19c02d4636d5af6ddcd.JPG 5667b7e49fbce384bffedb40fc42d070 https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/eb54adacaa2aad87ce381954dabeeead.JPG 42f475bd94e27d3899d4c3ebc39997aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Subseries XV-B - Moya Olsen Lear, 1950-2001, undated Description An account of the resource Moya Olsen Lear, 1950-2001, undated Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000-06-20, Subseries II-B Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2000-06-20_image_575_01 2000-06-20_image_575_02 Title A name given to the resource [Moya O. Lear and Fran McNally serving refreshments to passengers on Friendship One] Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The William P. and Moya Olsen Lear Papers (2000-06-20), Box 179, Folder 7 Description An account of the resource Photograph of Moya O. Lear (left) and flight attendant Fran McNally (right) serving refreshments to passengers on the Friendship One Boeing 747 aircraft, circa 1988. A business card for R. Edward Holmes, Aero Systems Aviation Corps., is attached to the verso. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1988 circa Subject The topic of the resource Lacy, Clay, 1932- Boeing Model 747SP (747-100SP) Commuter aircraft Transport planes Friendship One Flight attendants Airplane occupants Aircraft cabins Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 photograph : color ; 10 x 8 in Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource photographic prints Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The William P. and Moya Olsen Lear Papers/The Museum of Flight Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright undetermined https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/e104584093f6345b2477b81d0e29d76a.jpg 19c6d68019311b37aafb5e6f17e44483 https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/62a5408c496d0ea676ff0fb22ed84934.mp4 90248d645ded16b9f05e7f5096836359 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection Description An account of the resource The Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection contains six films, primarily home movies of Boeing family members and associates, from about 1930-1940. The films range in length from about one minute to about 15 minutes. The first five films are home movies depicting family activities and parties. Some of the footage depicts the construction of the Philip G. Johnson family home in Woodway, Washington. The house was designed by architect David Myers and later, from 1951-2009, was used as a convent by the Dominican Sisters of Edmonds. The final film in the series is an official Boeing film and depicts Edgar Gott conferring with U.S. military officers. Aside from the last film, none of the films contain aircraft footage or footage pertaining to the Boeing Company. Digitized Materials: This collection has been digitized in its entirety. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource circa 1930s-1940s Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wood, Peter M. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/482">Guide to the Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection</a> Language A language of the resource All materials are in English. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2004-07-28 Audiovisual Audiovisual items that are not an oral histories, such as personal film footage. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2004-07-28_AV_006_01 Title A name given to the resource [Aerial views and social gathering of Boeing family associates, circa August 1933 (Part 2 of 2)] Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection/The Museum of Flight Description An account of the resource Film footage of aerial views and a social gathering of Boeing family associates, circa August 1933. The footage appears to be a continuation of the same social gathering in Part 1, featuring the same people and locales. Scenes consist of aerial views filmed from an unidentified aircraft and shots of people participating in recreational activities and relaxing outside. William E. Boeing appears briefly at 00:06:54 holding a camera before stepping out of frame, and Boeing executive Philip G. Johnson appears in several scenes; the rest of the people are unidentified. Activities featured in the footage include fishing, canoeing, lawn games, and swimming. Also included are several shots of lakes, coastlines, mountains, cities, beaches, and other landscapes. At the end of the footage (00:13:18) is a brief clip of passengers and a flight attendant in a United Airlines Boeing Model 247 aircraft. No exterior shots of any aircraft are present in the footage. The footage is in black-and-white and is silent. Label on container: "[illegible] West, Aug 11-28 1933, #2. Benjamin film. Seattle - Johnson [Fraziers?] luncheon." Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 16mm (photographic film size) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Washington (State) Subject The topic of the resource Boeing, William Edward, 1881-1956 Outdoor recreation United Airlines Flight attendants Johnson, Philip G. (Philip Gustav), 1894-1944 Boeing Company--Employees Boeing Model 247 Family Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1933-08 circa Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Peter M. Wood Boeing Family Film Collection (2004-07-28) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 film reel (13 min., 40 sec.) : silent, black and white ; 16 mm Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/0a1b538f7f3e86e9b23f87223372367c.pdf b225d49ccf851d93f1a9df3a81243526 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection Description An account of the resource The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection is a small collection comprised of materials relating to Wingfield’s career as a flight attendant for American Airlines in the late 1930s. The collection includes one photographic portrait (a later reprint of a colorized photograph) of Wingfield in uniform; two logbooks from her routes as a flight attendant, dated 1936-1937 and 1939-1940; and four films. The privately shot films are from 1939 and the early 1940s and contain scenes of American Airlines cross-country flights, home movies, and other travel footage. While pilots and some other flight attendants appear in some scenes, passengers are not depicted in these films. The films range from 10 to 15 minutes in length. Digitized Materials: This collection has been digitized in its entirety. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-1940 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/475">Guide to the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection</a> Language A language of the resource All materials are in English. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A_text_002 Title A name given to the resource [Flight logbook owned by flight attendant Catherine Wingfield, 1939-1940] Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wingfield, Catherine Description An account of the resource Flight logbook owned by flight attendant Catherine Wingfield, January 1, 1939 - January 24, 1940. Documents flights taken by her during her career with American Airlines. Includes an inscription from an unidentified person on the inside back cover, dated January 13, 1940. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource logs (records) Subject The topic of the resource Wingfield, Catherine Flight attendants Women in aeronautics American Airlines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1939-1940 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection (1988-06-01-A) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/c8fa2ac000b3db1b0a07dffa2f3f9c79.pdf 77cd779858332a2f555d34541cd56f2a PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection Description An account of the resource The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection is a small collection comprised of materials relating to Wingfield’s career as a flight attendant for American Airlines in the late 1930s. The collection includes one photographic portrait (a later reprint of a colorized photograph) of Wingfield in uniform; two logbooks from her routes as a flight attendant, dated 1936-1937 and 1939-1940; and four films. The privately shot films are from 1939 and the early 1940s and contain scenes of American Airlines cross-country flights, home movies, and other travel footage. While pilots and some other flight attendants appear in some scenes, passengers are not depicted in these films. The films range from 10 to 15 minutes in length. Digitized Materials: This collection has been digitized in its entirety. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-1940 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/475">Guide to the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection</a> Language A language of the resource All materials are in English. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A_text_001 Title A name given to the resource [Flight logbook owned by flight attendant Catherine Wingfield, 1936-1937] Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wingfield, Catherine Description An account of the resource Flight logbook owned by flight attendant Catherine Wingfield, October 6, 1936 - August 30, 1937. Documents flights taken by her during her career with American Airlines. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource logs (records) Subject The topic of the resource Wingfield, Catherine Flight attendants Women in aeronautics American Airlines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-1937 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection (1988-06-01-A) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource In copyright https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/a0fc4c1c4e0209ee31d24d41eb95c17b.jpg 70c9c303c30fa19765cfae1250da5cf5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection Description An account of the resource The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection is a small collection comprised of materials relating to Wingfield’s career as a flight attendant for American Airlines in the late 1930s. The collection includes one photographic portrait (a later reprint of a colorized photograph) of Wingfield in uniform; two logbooks from her routes as a flight attendant, dated 1936-1937 and 1939-1940; and four films. The privately shot films are from 1939 and the early 1940s and contain scenes of American Airlines cross-country flights, home movies, and other travel footage. While pilots and some other flight attendants appear in some scenes, passengers are not depicted in these films. The films range from 10 to 15 minutes in length. Digitized Materials: This collection has been digitized in its entirety. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-1940 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/475">Guide to the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection</a> Language A language of the resource All materials are in English. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1988-06-01-A_image_001_01 Title A name given to the resource [Catherine Wingfield in American Airlines flight attendant uniform] Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection/The Museum of Flight Description An account of the resource Photographic portrait of Catherine Wingfield in her American Airlines flight attendant uniform, circa 1930s. Reprint of a colorized black-and-white photograph. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource photographic prints Subject The topic of the resource Wingfield, Catherine Flight attendants Women in aeronautics American Airlines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1930s circa Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Catherine Wingfield Flight Attendant Collection (1988-06-01-A) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright undetermined https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/99ec7d436d9ab8faaad721e1e2430d88.jpg 61f62248e0532e383dae3b8bc7e7de09 https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/files/original/4dc4b5d9e3a69cf702d63ac527ce62b9.mp4 7dd0913c05bad5cb3bd139e7faf9b855 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection Description An account of the resource The Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection is comprised of materials relating to Daniel’s 26-year career as photographer and videographer at the Boeing Company. The collection primarily consists of photographic materials and assorted documents relating to Daniel’s career, as well as seven films, all ranging from the late 1920s to early 1960s. The photographs, which are comprised of 95 black-and-white prints, nine color prints, 22 negatives, and three transparencies, consist of official Boeing images of various aircraft, including the 707 in various airline liveries and several military aircraft, and employees at Boeing. Some of the photographs were presumably taken by Daniel, but many of them depict him in the Boeing film studios, receiving awards, and with other motion picture unit staff. Some images relate to Daniel's work on films for the Lunar Orbiter and Minuteman programs. The documents in the collection include a certificate and other documents related to his retirement, assorted notes, and 1983-1984 organizational charts of the graphics/TV units. The seven films feature aviation-related scenes, approximately spanning the 1930s through the 1960s. The films appears to have been collected from a variety of sources, as they feature a wide range of subject matter. The content of the films are: <ul><li>Early aviation activities at Boeing Field (Washington), circa 1928-1935</li> <li>Scenes of military aircraft, interspersed with footage of an unidentified family, circa 1930s</li> <li>A United Air Lines Boeing 247 flight over Seattle, Washington, circa 1930s</li> <li>Members of the Associated Women Pilots of Boeing Field (AWPBF) at Boeing Field, Washington, circa July 1940</li> <li>Rescue operations for the Boeing B-29 Superfortress "City of Galveston" crew, filmed by Commander Hiram Cassidy of the USS Pintado, circa 1945</li> <li>A Boeing B-29 Superfortress aircraft taking off from an airfield, circa 1950s-1970s</li> <li>Naval aviation scenes filmed aboard an aircraft carrier, circa 1962-1963</li> </ul>The films range from one minute to 13 minutes in length. Digitized Materials: The seven films have been digitized from this collection. Please note that materials on TMOF: Digital Collections are presented as historical objects and are unaltered and uncensored. See our <a href="https://digitalcollections.museumofflight.org/disclaimers-policies">Disclaimers and Policies</a> page for more information. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1920s-1960s Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniel, Floyd R., 1919-2008 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a href="https://archives.museumofflight.org/repositories/2/resources/486">Guide to the Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection</a> Language A language of the resource All materials are in English. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. The Museum of Flight Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission to publish material from the Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection/The Museum of Flight Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2010-01-20 Audiovisual Audiovisual items that are not an oral histories, such as personal film footage. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2010-01-20_AV_007_01 Title A name given to the resource [United Air Lines Boeing 247 flight over Seattle, Washington, circa 1930s] Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. The Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection/The Museum of Flight Description An account of the resource Film footage of a United Air Lines Boeing 247 flight over Seattle, Washington, circa 1930s. The footage opens with a short scene filmed inside the cabin of a 247, showing a Boeing flight attendant tending to passengers. The next scene features an aerial view of the city and a 247 in flight. A title card appears at the end of the footage, reading: "Carrying ten passengers, two pilots, stewardess and cargo, this plane has a top speed of 182 miles an hour and cruising speed of 165 miles an hour." The footage is in black-and-white and is silent. Label on container: "Flight over Seattle. About 1933 / [illegible] 1st fl. / 247." Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 16mm (photographic film size) Subject The topic of the resource Boeing Model 247 Family Commuter aircraft Aircraft cabins Airplane occupants Flight attendants United Airlines Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1930s circa Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Floyd R. Daniel Boeing Collection (2010-01-20) Extent The size or duration of the resource. 1 film reel (1 min., 27 sec.) : silent, black and white ; 16 mm Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright undetermined